Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-10-2012, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resz
However, anything an escort can do, a cruiser or sci can do well enough to carry their weight in PvE.

Knowing what you're doing is far and away the most important thing in a normal STF, and an organized team adhering to the most effective strategy doubly so in elite. You might lag a few seconds behind in killing your generator compared to the escorts, for example, but it's not enough to cripple your team by any means.
Of course, pilot skill can even take the worst ship and make it run like a dream. A few members of the OPvP (Organized PvP) channel ran STFs in fighters and T1 ships.

However, PvE is all about AoE damage. Nothing can match the level of AoE damage Escorts can bring. Sure, a Sci or Cruiser can do damage, but what are you gaining by bringing one instead of an Escort?
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# 12
02-10-2012, 06:46 PM
I see the differences between Escorts and Cruisers this way.

It is the skill of the Captain/Boffs/Doffs and abilites that will make any ship stand out.

Without them, the ship(s) will be useless.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-10-2012, 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Of course, pilot skill can even take the worst ship and make it run like a dream. A few members of the OPvP (Organized PvP) channel ran STFs in fighters and T1 ships.

However, PvE is all about AoE damage. Nothing can match the level of AoE damage Escorts can bring. Sure, a Sci or Cruiser can do damage, but what are you gaining by bringing one instead of an Escort?
Oh, I agree. You're absolutely going to have an easier time in PvE if you're able to just CSV packs in an escort/raptor and call it a day. But you won't learn anything from it, not even about how to get the most out of your escort. And if you never stray from the straight and narrow PvE path and never dare venture into the dark forests of PvP adventure, that'll work out fine for you, so long as Cryptic never develops any PvE challenges that can't be easily solved by everyone just mindlessly shooting at it until it dies.

I'd rather be able to get more damage out of my cruiser in an STF than at least half (if I'm being generous) of the escorts I team with ever manage by endeavoring to improve myself and my ship than grow fat and lazy on the path of least resistance.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 14
02-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanonsah
I just finished a cure stf, and basically soloed it in my assualt cruiser. I out dpsed all escorts easily, and im only using mark x weapons.
And I've seen an Odyssey die to a single sphere and spend 2 minutes to barely scratch a transformer. Anecdotes are extremely useful.

Still, cruisers built for damage are good for any elite STF. It's the cruisers with rainbow beams, not enough power to utilize the weapons fully and with awesome skills like Boading Party 3 that can make the optionals impossible. Of course the same applies to escorts and science ships too but they are not as common.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-10-2012, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexiom
The Truth: In regular STFs, cruisers suck. Are they tougher than escorts? Yes, they are - but it doesn't matter, because a properly piloted escort will (a) not blow up, (b) do at least twice the damage of a cruiser, and (c) be faster and more maneuverable.

In elite STFs, cruisers are maybe a little better, but not much. Escorts and cruisers both die to 1-shot torpedoes, and non-torpedo damage is still tankable most of the time in an escort. And even if you blow up, the respawn timer is only 15 seconds. Big whoop.

As far as STFs go, it is really all about damage. Survivability barely matters. You do the math.
Speak for yourself, I get hit with those, wipes out an entire shield facing and 65% of my hull but I cna recover from that.

Spec into threat control and when the escorts go from rarel exploding to not at all, they'll be grateful your there and the team will perform better, since your DPS is 0 when you blow up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-10-2012, 07:08 PM
Is damage most valuable in STFs? Yes. Do Escorts do more damage than cruisers in STFs? Yes, mostly. Does pilot skill matter more than the ship? Yes. Do builds matter? Also yes.

You can do well at all levels in a cruiser. Will you have an easier time in an escort? Probably, but you may not have a funner time in an escort, and really, if you're going to do STFs 200 times, you might aswell enjoy them, or try to do so.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-10-2012, 07:32 PM
Im no talking about STF's
But elite Gamma Encounters with my Advanced Escort, VA

I can solo the Borg Cudes in there with kills being under 30 seconds.
with repeated Crits from my Trico with HY III (that borg shootdwon only maybe 1 in 5 torps)
im doing upto 150,000+dmg on a good crit & they die

Sphere are little more than a joke. my record has been 1 cycle of weapons i dropped Elite Sphere

Loadout
fore : 3 X DHC's Antiproton 1 X Trico Torp All MK X Purples,
aft : 1 x disruptor turret 1 X Tetryon (for the procs & forward dps) 1 X Quantum MK X Blue

Im sure it cant be much harder with a Cruiser or Sci.
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# 18
02-10-2012, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvs5191 View Post
Cruisers are perfectly viable in PvP. You just have to make sure you're not trying to be a Kirk and zerg in, expecting to take on the entire enemy team, or DPS Hero and out damage Escorts.

But for PvE... anything a Cruiser or Sci can do, an Escort can do better.
i dunno, rounding up them mirror fed ships with grav wells doesnt seem something an escort could do better.... although a mvam escort with well 1 and scatter 3... -ponders- i got it! scatter 3, torp spread 3 and beta 1! winner!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-10-2012, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
i dunno, rounding up them mirror fed ships with grav wells doesnt seem something an escort could do better.... although a mvam escort with well 1 and scatter 3... -ponders- i got it! scatter 3, torp spread 3 and beta 1! winner!
No no, for big PvE group destruction, it's all about GW 1 + APB 3 + CSV 2 on an MVAE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-10-2012, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanonsah
I just finished a cure stf, and basically soloed it in my assualt cruiser. I out dpsed all escorts easily, and im only using mark x weapons.
Must have been some real sad Escorts... My MVAE can out DPS just about any comer in its sleep.

To the OP: Cruisers are fine in PvP if you are using them as healing boats. They cannot do much good with their Tank Vs. a smart player because in PvP they will simply ignore you and go for important ships.

In PvE Cruisers are a bit less required... They cannot deal the same damage as an Escort and in STF's you NEED damage more than anything. If the Cruiser cannot A) Keep the DPS ships alive or B) Draw and HOLD Aggro from the enemies while staying alive then it is NOT helping in an STF. That is pretty much the be all and end all of that discussion.

Give you a great example... You know those enemies in KA or Cure that you have to kill to prevent them from killing the Kang or going through the portal? My MVAE can wipe the floor with them in mere seconds. No Cruiser can do that. Most Cruisers struggle to even get over to them in time let alone kill them. Once I've mopped them up I can zoom back in to help kill the main objective allowing me to do more than one role at once. So you tell me: Is a Cruiser all that viable when compared to an Escort?

The Odyssey and Bortas as they stand right now are just unfortunate... They have huge hulls but considering Tanking ability is reflected in how much I can heal and resist NOT in how much HP I have that does not help much. They cannot turn to save their lives (Literally) and while their DPS against a stationary target is Moderate for the Odyssey and possibly Good for the Bortas their inability to be flexible and bring that DPS where it needs to be at a moment's notice is a big hindrance.
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