Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-11-2012, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalkorrd View Post
Don't listen to the min/maxers and number crunchers, fly whatever ship floats your boat. Just do it smartly. Stick with one energy type( rainbows fail, for pve at least). The variety of the builds you can put together is part of the fun. The day that I HAVE to run a certain specced escort or cruiser to finsh an stf or other event, that is the day I quit this game. Too many MMO's have fallen into that trap "If you are a tank, you have to be specced like this and only this to succeed", or "healers have to have this list of spells to be a part of my group". That is all a bunch of fail. Just please don't bring a cruiser with 7 or 8 turrets on it into an stf, there is so much fail in that, I don't even want to get into it.
Multi-energy builds are much more viable now (but not necessarily better).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-11-2012, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
The Odyssey isn't really the best tank in terms of cruisers. And it isn't the best choice of DPS in terms of cruisers. The +1 Odyssey may indeed end up being a lot more viable, but if you're going to fly a cruiser at end-game, use a better cruiser than the free Odyssey. You'll be fine.
So what in your opinion is the better cruiser choice?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake81499 View Post
Hmmm, a possible Kilink promoting Cruisers. You guys do know he's doing that for a reason? LOL
...Because I fly a Marauder?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-11-2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Multi-energy builds are much more viable now (but not necessarily better).
True. I use a mix of phaser and polaron beam arrays on my cruiser, and they seem to do a very good job of destroying the enemy. I use them in STFs without any trouble, so I think it just depends on how you implement them and your own tactics in using them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-11-2012, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resz
So have I, though I'm more prone to attributing that to the skill of the pilot more than the effectiveness of their ship. A Klingon cruiser captain will typically be less likely to screw these things up than his Fed counterpart, but the former is a much rarer sight than the latter's dime a dozen.

And a good Fed cruiser captain in an STF is just as rare!
Well... There is one key thing to consider here... Klingons do NOT have Cruisers... They have Heavy Warships. I know that is technical but it is also an actual difference in terms of their setups as well. Many of their ships turn better, are powered better for battle, and can equip more deadly weapons. Warships > Cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-11-2012, 09:36 PM
I can only speak for normal STFs, haven't gone into elite. I play an Engineer and I was first doing STFs in my Sovereign. I didn't die, I could throw some heals out if needed, but my damage wasn't all that amazing. I decided to get a Defiant to just change up the pace a bit. No way I'm going back to my Sov. On the Defiant I can turn quickly and shred things with my cannons. I am still pretty tough because of my Engineer abilities. So I still don't die and I kill things much faster. Kind of a win win. Hell, I outlive cruisers all the time, granted these are pugs and there are some absolutely HORRIBLE players in it. I'll admit I'm still learning to fly an escort, but at least I can stop 2 probes unlike some people I've seen.... Anyways, back the the point. Faster, nearly as tough, and do much more damage with my escort.

Funny, on my Tactical klingon I am flying a raptor and I'm starting to think I should remake him as an Engineer as well, I find those Engineer skills much more helpful.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 47
02-11-2012, 09:49 PM
So what feedback Cryptic should gather from this thread is add more incentive for survivabilty over DPS in STFs. Make it a bit more balanced so that DPS is not all you need, but someone to soak up damage. Maybe make the respawn timers longer and boost damage done by enemies??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Well... There is one key thing to consider here... Klingons do NOT have Cruisers... They have Heavy Warships. I know that is technical but it is also an actual difference in terms of their setups as well. Many of their ships turn better, are powered better for battle, and can equip more deadly weapons. Warships > Cruisers.
The Orion Marauder, which I fly, is a star cruiser with a flight deck. There is no difference in their capability beyond the ability to launch small craft. Unless you think +5 weapon power is a significant offensive advantage, that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieboysw View Post
So what feedback Cryptic should gather from this thread is add more incentive for survivabilty over DPS in STFs. Make it a bit more balanced so that DPS is not all you need, but someone to soak up damage. Maybe make the respawn timers longer and boost damage done by enemies??
Boost damage done by enemies in normal so that dedicated healing is worth bringing and nerf enemy damage in elites so that healing at all is worth trying to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 49
02-11-2012, 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resz
The Orion Marauder, which I fly, is a star cruiser with a flight deck. There is no difference in their capability beyond the ability to launch small craft. Unless you think +5 weapon power is a significant offensive advantage, that is.
The launching of Pet Spam is a major difference and the +5 Weapon Power DOES make a difference in how you set up the entirety of your build IF you want to deal damage. However, the Marauder is also NOT a Cruiser but it is also NOT a proper Klingon War Ship either. It is somewhere between a War Ship and a Carrier while being... well... as much as you would probably rather not hear it... Not generally as good as Either.

I am talking the proper Vor'Cha Refit or the Nagh'Var as end level Klingon Heavy War Ships with the Vor'Cha Refit being a beautiful ship in all honesty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieboysw View Post
So what feedback Cryptic should gather from this thread is add more incentive for survivabilty over DPS in STFs. Make it a bit more balanced so that DPS is not all you need, but someone to soak up damage. Maybe make the respawn timers longer and boost damage done by enemies??
I think what would help more is to make Getting and Holding Aggro easier to accomplish and also making more heals based on percentages rather than flat numbers. Why? Because then if you have 40K Hull and heal 50% of that with a heal you get 20K as opposed to a lighter ship with only 30K Hull which only gets 15K back. Making percentile based healing abilities would give those massive hulls an actual advantage which they currently lack. Add in the easier and more proper crowd control and the Cruiser is in business.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-11-2012, 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
The launching of Pet Spam is a major difference and the +5 Weapon Power DOES make a difference in how you set up the entirety of your build IF you want to deal damage. However, the Marauder is also NOT a Cruiser but it is also NOT a proper Klingon War Ship either. It is somewhere between a War Ship and a Carrier while being... well... as much as you would probably rather not hear it... Not generally as good as Either.
Actually, I was wrong: the marauder and star cruiser have the exact same power level bonuses, +5 to everything, so it doesn't even have that for an advantage. The pet spam does offer a great advantage in PvE, though, I will grant you, since loading it with power siphon drones go a long way toward declawing enemies. However, to say that it's not a cruiser is ridiculous. Observe:

Federation Star Cruiser

Hull:
39,000
Standard Shields:
4,975
Weapons:
Fore 4 Aft 4
Crew:
1,000
Bridge Officers:
Ensign Science, Lieutenant Science, Lieutenant Tactical, Lieutenant Commander Engineering, Commander Engineering
Device Slots:
4
Consoles:
Tac x2, Eng x4, Sci x3
Turn Rate:
7
Impulse Modifier:
0.15
Inertia rating:
15
Bonus Power:
+5 all power levels

Orion Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser

Hull:
39,000
Standard Shields:
5,225
Weapons:
Fore 4 Aft 4
Hangar Bays:
1
Crew:
1,200
Bridge Officers:
Ensign Science, Lieutenant Tactical, Lieutenant Science, Lieutenant Commander Engineering, Commander Engineering
Device Slots:
4
Consoles:
Tac x2, Eng x4, Sci x3
Turn Rate:
7
Impulse Modifier:
0.17
Inertia rating:
30
Bonus Power:
+5 all power levels


Same hull, same turn rate, same weapons, same bridge officer slots, same consoles, same power level bonuses. The only offensive advantage the Marauder has over the Star Cruiser is the ability to launch pets, which themselves aren't really big damage bringers (though the aforementioned siphon drones can be pretty handy in some of your longer boss fights) but don't really add much to the raw DPS output of the ship itself, honestly. In fact, the most noticeable advantage that the Marauder has over the Star Cruiser is its higher shield rating, a defensive stat.

But I'm really not seeing anything in there that stops it from being a cruiser. Hell, it even has "cruiser" in the name, there.

However, I will grant you that the Marauder is, indeed, both offensively and defensively superior to the Star Cruiser... which itself is the Federation's least offensively minded cruiser. Every other Starfleet cruiser has the capability to be built to put out more damage than the Marauder, be it the Sovereign's ensign tac slot, the Galaxy-R's better maneuverability and access to more beam arrays in saucer seperation mode, the Galaxy-X's decloak bonus, access to dual cannons, and phaser lance, the Excelsior's better maneuverabilty and lt cmdr tac slot or, yes, even the Odyssey's universal lt cmdr slot giving it access to more tactical abilities, even though really it's kind of a terrible ship all around so it probably wouldn't work out that well. But on paper, it should be able to!

And yet my Marauder holds its own well enough in terms of dealing PvE damage, and it's not even running a pure damage build.
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