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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Mines, as a whole are typically used to moderate effect these days. How ever I noticed that unlike powers such as High Yield, or Spread, Mine patterns don't actually buff the damage the Mines do, they just give you more of them.

Mine Deployment patterns do not increase the damage of mines. Sure they allow you to deploy more Mines, but those mines don't do more damage unlike their Torpedo power counter parts that shoot out more Torpedos AND increase the damage of the Torpedo. And the Torpedo: Spread and Torpedo: High Yield powers reciently were changed to effect Tricobalt Torpedos.

So what I'm asking is 2 things..

1: Why doesn't Mine dispersal patterns actually increase individual mine damage despite the amount of mines deployed?

2: Why wasn't the Mine dispersal patterns also applied to the Tricobalt Mine like the Torpedo powers were applied to the Tricobalt Torpedos?

A suggestion would be to make the Deployment patterns work like the High Yield and Spread options for Torpedos.

(Unfortunately my memeory on the NAMES of each pattern that does what escapes me, so description is better used until I remember the names for each pattern)

For example, the Mine Pattern that Deploys Multiple sets of Mines could get a damage boost like Spread, since you putting more mines out in clumps to make a longer chain of Mines.

For Example, the Mine Pattern that Deploys a Net of Mines could get a damage boost like High Yield, since your putting a large amount of mines out in one spot all at once.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-26-2012, 11:02 AM
Pattern Alpha and Pattern Beta. Beta is the net, Alpha is the cluster deployment.

My problem with them is that they're all in high-level Tac slots. Maybe a Vo'Quv or Ody would use a level 2 pattern, but isn't a Commander level Tac slot pretty much reserved for things like Cannon Rapid 3 or a level 3 Attack Pattern?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoKnight View Post
Pattern Alpha and Pattern Beta. Beta is the net, Alpha is the cluster deployment.

My problem with them is that they're all in high-level Tac slots. Maybe a Vo'Quv or Ody would use a level 2 pattern, but isn't a Commander level Tac slot pretty much reserved for things like Cannon Rapid 3 or a level 3 Attack Pattern?
Also, last I checked, there is no way to get a Mine Dispersal Pattern Alpha 3 (I think it's Alpha 3).

Yeah it would be nice if the Mine Patterns were moved to the same BO power slots as the Torpedo Powers. (Ensign for 1, Lt for 2, LtC for 3)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-26-2012, 10:10 PM
Because you're getting more mines, which equals more damage.

I don't know the numbers off the top of my head (at work, can't check), but if THY1 increases your torpedo damage by 50% it's like getting 1.5 torpedos when its used. If Mine Dispersal gives you 4 extra mines (above the 5), you're getting 1.8 mines when you use it, or, 180% of the normal damage potential. So, you can get more total overall damage, but the balancing factor is that mines can be shot down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Yes you get more mines which can increase damage if each mine can actually hit.

How ever, Torpedo High Yield and Torpedo Spread also increase the amount of Torpedoes fired in ADDITION to the damage buff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-27-2012, 05:14 PM
i think it was designed to be only use by escorts...but nobody is using it in escorts anyways. I believe it would be a nice switch in gameplay if it was moved to ensign and Lt. I would maybe use one if the dispersal pattern was was an ensign ability and would buff the dmg output of mines greatly as do torpedo ablilities.
and the cooldown should be sepperated from the torpedo powers.

so thumbs up for this thread, would love to see those changes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-27-2012, 05:42 PM
The math works out that a full HYT hitting hull will do the same damage as the equivalent rank of a mine dispersal pattern if all the mines hit the hull.

Of course, in practice, it's harder to get all the mines to connect against exposed hull as it is to get HYT to, but that's a different issue, and to address the OP's question of why they don't do the same damage...they do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainu
and to address the OP's question of why they don't do the same damage...they do.
I have never witnessed any Mine dispersal pattern increase the damage of the individual mine.

For example, my Mk XII Quantum Mine [CrtD] [CrtH] [Borg] Does 2,261 Damage, weither I deploy the standard 5, or use a mine dispersal pattern to deploy more. Unless it Crits, it never deviates vs Hull it's damage beyond a few hundred due to resistances or damage rolls.

Yes they disperse more mines, I have stated I know this. And I do know that more mines can equal more damage. Again my post was about allowing the dispersal patterns increase the individual mine damage beyond just deploying more mines. And I'm not asking for something as out rageous as a High yield in damage increase. But perhaps something marginal but enough to notice. Such as maybe 2%, 4%, 6%. At least then they do something other then let you spit more mines out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-27-2012, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
I have never witnessed any Mine dispersal pattern increase the damage of the individual mine.

For example, my Mk XII Quantum Mine [CrtD] [CrtH] [Borg] Does 2,261 Damage, weither I deploy the standard 5, or use a mine dispersal pattern to deploy more. Unless it Crits, it never deviates vs Hull it's damage beyond a few hundred due to resistances or damage rolls.

Yes they disperse more mines, I have stated I know this. And I do know that more mines can equal more damage. Again my post was about allowing the dispersal patterns increase the individual mine damage beyond just deploying more mines. And I'm not asking for something as out rageous as a High yield in damage increase. But perhaps something marginal but enough to notice. Such as maybe 2%, 4%, 6%. At least then they do something other then let you spit more mines out.
I don't think HY works the way you think it does. The tooltip of the torpedo shows an increase in damage when HY is used, but those multiple torpedoes you're seeing *are* that increase for most torpedoes.. If you use a plasma (or Tricobalt too, IIRC) for instance, you only get one torpedo launched, but its damage increase is the same *percentage* of increase as a Quantum spread over 'multiple shots'.

The mines actually increase in number, so again, the increased damage from the skill comes from all the mines that launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-28-2012, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
I don't think HY works the way you think it does. The tooltip of the torpedo shows an increase in damage when HY is used, but those multiple torpedoes you're seeing *are* that increase for most torpedoes..
I'm afraid I have to disagree. Because the Torpedo Damage is buffed and then the number of torpedoes is increased by the version of the High Yield.

High Yield 1 Launches 2 Torps instead of 1
High Yield 2 Launches 3 Torps instead of 1
High Yield 3 Launches 4 Torps instead of 1

All while increasing the Damage of the base torps, with 2 Exceptions: Tricobalt and Plasma Torps. Those Torps have their Damage increased and they get changed into a different type of warhead. The Plasma Torp becomes a slow moving ball of plasma that can be shot down. It's Size increases with each version of High Yield to show how strong it gets. Meanwhile Tricobalt becomes a High Yield Tricobalt that disperses an AOE upon Impact to Stun enemies in the radius.

With Spread the Torp damage is again Increased, but this time instead of just increasing the amount of Torps to a single target, it is split up by 3's amongst different targets and given an AOE effect around that target. Tricobalt is again slightly different in the spread regard, it does fire multiple tricobalts, but only an extra 1, 2, or 3 depending on the Spread used.

Again, I feel it might increase The Deployment Mine Patterns effectiveness if they also gave a SLIGHT damage increase to the individual mines. Nothing as severe as the high yields. (Again I already know that the Deployment is a kind of buff to the damage, but more mines doesn't always equate to more damage with how Mines work in this game. They are more Spam instead of being a threatening field of damage.) And the damage I would be thinking of is again maybe an extra 2% For version 1, 4% for version 2 and 6% for version 3.

Also I feel that the Mine Deployment Patterns should work for the Tricobalt Mine in the same way that the High Yields effect the Tricobalt Torpedo. Mine Pattern Beta could create the "High Yield Tricobalt Mine" that would do the same effect as a Tricobalt Torpedo. Where the Mine Pattern Alpha would launch more of the Tricobalt Mine. (Version 1 would launch 1 extra mine, Version 2 would launch 2 extra Mines, with Version 3 Launching 3 extra mines)
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