Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
02-14-2012, 11:52 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I had real trouble with that mission. I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in about it. Loaded words aside, how was that a good situation?
Why? From a Klingon PoV I can easily see the interogating warrior having no pity for a cowardly act of not dying rather than give up the codes.
Heck, I personally would not have even considered destroying his ship and crew afterwards had the Captain given his life to protect the federation shipyards, as such would be seen as a honorable sacrifice to save the warriors below him in command and the honor of his faction.
But no, he crumbles like dead dried up gagh and deserves the dishonor that comes from such cowardly actions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
02-14-2012, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Why? From a Klingon PoV I can easily see the interogating warrior having no pity for a cowardly act of not dying rather than give up the codes.
Heck, I personally would not have even considered destroying his ship and crew afterwards had the Captain given his life to protect the federation shipyards, as such would be seen as a honorable sacrifice to save the warriors below him in command and the honor of his faction.
But no, he crumbles like dead dried up gagh and deserves the dishonor that comes from such cowardly actions.
^This^

Klingon Honor is more like the Feudal Japanese Samurai Code of Bushido than modern American concepts of honor.
  • If you fail and die, then you are remembered fondly, as all know you literally gave your life trying to accomplish your duty.
  • If you fail and live, then you have obviously held back and so failed to do your best.
  • If you succeed and die, then you gave your life in order to accomplish your duty, and no man can speak ill of you for that.
  • If you succeed and live, then you have proven yourself truly a skilled Warrior, and are held in the highest esteem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
02-14-2012, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I had real trouble with that mission. I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in about it. Loaded words aside, how was that a good situation?
At least KDF has races like Nausicaans which I can easily imagine doing a thing like that. Federation has no excuse at all. The game should allow you to make the choices instead of the script.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
02-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Speaking of going off-script:

I very much wanted the option, in A Certain Fed Mission, to go against orders or - even better - realize something was up, subtly signal to my well-trained crew, and capture/trap the imposter (see the end of TNG "Allegiance" for an example).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
02-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Did you reprimand or delete the offending officer whom fired on a game mechanics whim when a target was put before it?

Me, I killed the cowardly captain myself and then destroyed his ship as it would have given him honor to die a hero and defy my desire to have the codes instead of crumbling like a targ in heat under a few persuasive disruptor shots. That choice was mine.
Unlike the following the suspiciuos order of a Star Fleet Admiral and massacering romulan civilians becuase one was ordered too do so in the line of duty.
Now that makes one think....

I agree completely. The federation gameplay needs more missions that reflect thier ideology and offer options to completion of said missions along those lines.
The PvE combat diffently needs to be enhanced to be challenging beyond just more HP and damage.

As well players must expect PvE missions that reflect the faction they are playing and not assume that becuase the feds may stop and ask first before shooting that the KDF will as well or that the Romulans would not take an interily different approach. STO may be a single game but it is represented several differeing views on how things should be done. Its time the game reflects that more not less.
I wondered why I was not given the choice of killing the captain and having outcomes for each choice.

I wanted to discipline the officer who did the deed and did not think to dismiss him, I should have done that. I wanted to reduce him in rank for doing that without orders.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollywog View Post
I wondered why I was not given the choice of killing the captain and having outcomes for each choice.
That would be very cool.

I'd love to see more missions where your choices change what happens in the mission, maybe even changes what loot you get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
02-14-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
^This^

Klingon Honor is more like the Feudal Japanese Samurai Code of Bushido than modern American concepts of honor.
  • If you fail and die, then you are remembered fondly, as all know you literally gave your life trying to accomplish your duty.
  • If you fail and live, then you have obviously held back and so failed to do your best.
  • If you succeed and die, then you gave your life in order to accomplish your duty, and no man can speak ill of you for that.
  • If you succeed and live, then you have proven yourself truly a skilled Warrior, and are held in the highest esteem.
Oh, I'm quite familiar with both the traditional and the modern interpretations of Bushido -- the Heiki Monogatari was a bear to get through but worth it for its insights into Japanese history of the period* -- as well as all the unpleasantness that came with it. As we say, 'It's more complicated than that.'

But I guess it was a misasked question. The Klingons do after all have the mind-sifter. Torturing a captive for information is really just a more hands-on approach to the same thing, 'lead pipe decryption' sans the lead pipe.

Honestly, thinking about it, I'm surprised the Starfleet captain even let it get to that point, or caved that fast.


* - More to the point, similarly to the Romance of Three Kingdoms, it was worth it for its insights into the insights of Japanese history of that period, from the period it was written in. =)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
02-14-2012, 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I had real trouble with that mission. I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in about it. Loaded words aside, how was that a good situation?



Wait, pardon? What does 'rightfully died' mean?
He was clearly insane and had to be removed. I mean seriously, one he asked the Deferi to the conference... you know the people that can't even defend their own homeworld cause it would disrupt balance. He had it coming for being a complete moron, as well as evidently senile.

Not only that "the federation will die in 3 years" From what? Seriously, from what? Name one thing in this game that is a threat to the player characters. Other player characters? Good thing Borg aren't them same with everyone else in the galaxy.

Hell the NPCs can't even kill each other in a timely fashion. on my second play through I decided to hang back and see how long it took for the jem hadar or feds to kill each other... After five minutes I grew impatient, loaded up the Grape and leveled the Jem Hadar like I did the first time without even losing a shield facing.

The impact of the story, is non existent because there is no threat in this game. Which makes dialogue like the Admiral's laughably sad. Which in turns leads to people like myself, rooting for the bad guys when they actually manage to kill someone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
02-14-2012, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Having recently rewatched Carl Sagan's Cosmos TV series, it was interesting to see how the commentary of the show highlighted the tensions of the Cold War. I'd speculate that TV and other media throught history has echoed the state of global affairs at the time it was written. While combat and conflict does help with the fun nature of flying a massive Starship around where you can fire your phaser banks and torpedoes, the conflict within STO may also be a subconscious reflection of our view of humanity at this hour.

Great thread btw...
While that's probably true, as is it also reflected by many other video games at the time, it's strange in the sense that the world is at a greater peace (despite news organizations) than it ever has been. But that could be right, STO is all about various factions and complications to getting serious things done. Examples are taking care of the Borg, sharing information on the Iconians, taking on the Undine threat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
02-14-2012, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Mink
I had real trouble with that mission. I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in about it. Loaded words aside, how was that a good situation?



Wait, pardon? What does 'rightfully died' mean?
Meh, its better than the time they mass executed hundreds of civilians (or at least thought they did) in Errand of Mercy

Quote:
Originally Posted by HF_Mudd
Speaking of going off-script:

I very much wanted the option, in A Certain Fed Mission, to go against orders or - even better - realize something was up, subtly signal to my well-trained crew, and capture/trap the imposter (see the end of TNG "Allegiance" for an example).
Well hopefully their are still planing on remastering more episodes and that will be one they make changes to.
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