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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-12-2012, 05:28 PM
Did no one watch DS9 and the Dominion War?
Weren't there times during the last several seasons of DS9 where it felt like the Federation was going to collapse?
Wasn't there nearly a coup of the federation by members of Starfleet?
Didn't Sisco and Garak use deception, assassination, lies and bribery to get the Romulans on the Federation side of the Dominion War?

These are just a couple of the darker episodes of DS9. I would say that the current state of the federation is parallel to the environment of the Dominion War. And the 2800 FE is effectively a continuation of the Dominion War after Sacrifice of Angels.

And my Star Trek universe wasn't always about hope. There were some dark and gritty periods during the Dominion War the many in the Federation would probably like to forget.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-12-2012, 06:14 PM
Pay attention to the post, Cryptic! It's time to end some of the wars!!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-12-2012, 06:21 PM
The game would feel more trek like if you could:
  • Have the option to disable ships instead of killing everyone everywhere.
  • Have the option to use a true stun setting on your ground weapons. Instead of killing everything.
  • Once you disable a ship, detain an enemy captain, who you might be able to interrogate or hand over to starfleet.
  • Eliminate the ridiculous admiral rank: trek fans want to be captains. To us, an admiral is a desk job. Have different grades of captain if you need more flexibility.
  • Have more true exploration, not visit random base and scan 5 computers.
  • Have more true diplomatic missions, not fly to planet and give supplies.
  • Update transitions so you don't beam off your bridge to go to ship view, warp to earth or other planets (all trek fans know you're supposed to use impulse only in a star system)
  • Update interior visuals. Some of them are so drab and dark and depressing. (space graphics are beautiful, why can't interiors be?)
  • Let me go to my own sickbay to treat injuries. Has medical science really relapsed that badly?
  • Give me something to do while traveling. Give interiors a true purpose
  • when we do have to fight the Klingons, give pvp a purpose. Give us an additional station or sector that can change factions.
  • Give our ships more of sims feel: let us deal with unexpected crew issues, assign a uniform, train officers in a holodeck.
  • if you insist of flying starfleet officers around in cardassian ships, give us a reason why. Not just that mysteriously appear out of a cardassian lock box.
  • if you insist on making us fleet admirals, give us the ability to control a fleet of ships (1 of each tier) that we have acquired. Instead of allowing our low tier ships to collect dust. Give us fleet missions where we coordinate 5 ships at once.

But, I'm tired now and I could probably go on and on...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-12-2012, 06:32 PM
He's dead! Jim....
that cool! he's a "Red Shirt", nearly almost every episodes on classic series, most of them died are wearing red shirt.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-12-2012, 06:48 PM
Quote:
I'm still hoping that the 3800 end up allying themselves with the Federation at the very end of the saga and flying off to fight the borg to help save everyone.
Its 2800 and I don't need to play the entire series to know thats not going to happen. not to mention the end of the series seems to imply you board the station and fight the leader of the invasion force, at least given whats said in the info box.

Quote:
When I was playing "Second Wave", an episode that I thought they did a really good job on, I despaired at the admiral saying "The Federation has about 3 years left before we are completely destroyed by the borg!"
first thought when I heard that was that it was a devs attempt at taking a stab at PWE and foreshadowing.

Quote:
I have to agree with the OP. The game is astoundingly bleak in outlook if you stop and think about what is going on. Star Trek differs form other sci-fi genres in its hope for a birght future filled with optimism.
in the grand scheme of things the universe isn't a nice place.

Quote:
If you seen the original Path to 2409 - you can see the travesty and mockery of Star Trek lore all over the place. This game made the Klingons look like a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongering Barbarians that goes on a random violent spree because its the honorable thing to do
I didn't get that vibe from it at all. frankly I would agree with the klingons on this one. it was clear that certain groups were infiltrated and were going to move against somebody sooner or later. they acted in what they believed to be the best interests of everybody, not just themselves. don't forget they were proved right about the gorn. when everyone around you is being manipulated to turn against you, sitting around talking and negotiating isn't the smartest thing to do. particularly when its all one big scam to pretty much destroy everybody

Quote:
the Borg are not going to destroy the federation in 3 years. the federation will be here for centuries to come as they are the main faction in the whole franchise. its a way to ramp up the feeling of danger, in the same way the borg did not destroy the federation in the best of both worlds or the dominion did not win the war but they made it seem like the feds were on the verge of destruction.
the borg learn from every encounter and become more dangerous. the dominion having lost the war was technically due to means beyond anybodys control - technically they should have won the war when the minefield was destroyed

sidenote: anybody else wonder that with all the alternate reality episodes there was never one where the dominion DID win the war? would have been interesting to see
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-12-2012, 06:52 PM
"I take it the odds are against us and the situation is grim?" -- James T. Kirk

Dark times only mean your captain story gets a chance to shine even brighter. If the universe was a peaceful place, your character would still be a junior officer working on the tutorial ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-12-2012, 07:05 PM
I have a mixed view on the unfortunate state of the Alpha Quadrant in the STO storyline.

On one hand, I recognize the need for disparate "enemy" groups in an MMO, if it were "all Feds/Klingons all the time", people would get very bored, very quickly. So there needs to be castaway Cardassians, rebellious Romulans, jilted Jem'Hadar, obtuse Orions, harried Hirogen, and belligerent Borg to blow away..

On the other hand, I would love a more cerebral STO Story arc focusing on the primary war itself, all we have so far is Undine Infiltration + Klingon overreaction + Federation Pacifism = War.

I would love it if the game didn't start at war, but instead the first ten or twenty levels were spent dealing with the brush fires and unfortunate events leading up to the war, all the trade disagreements, misunderstanding, botched negotiations.. All the things that would lead to the tragic circumstance of armed conflict.

Then the next twenty levels dealing with the War itself, front line fighting, skirmishes, territorial struggles, hand to hand and ship to ship..

Then the last ten levels would deal with the wider tactical picture, where we lead major campaigns to take whole worlds and capture key resources, at the same time dealing with all the other things the war has affected.

Romulan Aid negotiations, Cardassian rebuilding efforts, The Deferi Incident, the Remans, make the FEs things for the best of the best to deal with, not the junior officers (this would encourage folks to level the whole way before abandoning the game, as well).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-12-2012, 07:15 PM
While constant darkness was never a feature of the series (even through the lengthy Dominion War arc of DS9), it is important that we do have sufficient low points from which our federations and empires as well as heroes and villains can shine, express their moralities, or lack thereof and really define to us what Gene set out to portray.. that humanity at such low points of seeming despair could be better, could be more and could literally defy the odds by engaging in what makes us truly human. Our love of tacos.

Hopefully with more engaging content we can start to see more steps taken to tell these stories. Its probably felt like we have been "three years away from annihilation" all year now since we've been frozen in time with only bad news lingering.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-12-2012, 07:27 PM
The story arc is called "The Long War" in the STO book.

This is the start of it, yes even after 2 years of development.

Like every other adventure/war story ever written, it gets darker as you progress.
Thatīs actually something Cryptic IS doing right IMO, unlike some who accuse them of "fanboyism".

Where it starts to get wonky is when they just donīt stop piling it up but then there are no visible consequences to their own lore!

Please start to use your own tech. You can instance the heck out of everything. Introduce the actual timeline then give us instances pre Borg etc. invasion for everybody starting out and advanced versions of the timeline for those that have passed the corresponding event(s).

Yes it will "divide" the user base into different maps. But as the server strain and routine 5-9 instances on most maps show, there surely wonīt be empty maps anymore. Even for lower levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-12-2012, 08:54 PM
I don't believe "Star Trek" means the same to you as it does to me. It seems you have an emphasis on The Next Generation or The Original Series of Star Trek, and Teflon Star Trek is not the only Trek out there. As a big fan of Deep Space Nine, I would very much disagree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
Star Trek has always been about hope, and optimism, progress and peace.
I disagree. I just read over synopsis of Season 4, 5, 6, and 7 of Deep Space 9. The Seasons were overshadowed with war, the Dominion, sacrifice, loss, sadness. Over half of the episodes for those 4 seasons (100+ episodes), were not about hope or optimism, progress or peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
When I was playing "Second Wave", an episode that I thought they did a really good job on, I despaired at the admiral saying "The Federation has about 3 years left before we are completely destroyed by the borg!"

THAT IS SO DEPRESSING! 3 years??? Do you know how bad that makes things? That is all but hopeless. That is not humanity reaching out to the stars and evolving to the next level, it is our inevitable doom.
During the Dominion War, like during the period that DS9 was occupied by the Dominion, there were plenty of despair. There was dialog about list of dead being posted weekly, moral being at an all time low, and losing the war without getting the Romulans on the Federation/Klingon side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
I'm not saying we shouldn't fight the borg. I'm not saying we need non-violent missions. Obviously these things should be what the game is about. But I'd like to see more of an emphasis on hope and optimism.

I'm still hoping that the 3800 end up allying themselves with the Federation at the very end of the saga and flying off to fight the borg to help save everyone. I want to see an entire series about Deffera joining the Federation. Throw in attacks and battles, but have the objective be us fighting for unity, not just fighting a hopeless battle to survive.
If you watch the Episodes "Favor the Bold" and "Sacrifice of Angels", you would see that the 2800 Dominion ships were coming to the Alpha Quadrent to take it over completely. The Federation and Klingons were the only forces available to prevent it, and they only had a hand full of fleets to stop them. The situation looked hopeless. The Alpha Quadrent was about to fall to the Dominion.

This is no different from the scenario proposed by this featured episode, so it does follow the Trek theme introduced in DS9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
Does anyone else agree? Again, I am focussing on theme, aesthetic, and feel. I'd like more of this game to feel like Star Trek and not Starship Troopers.
I do not disagree, but I do not totally agree. This is a DS9 FE, so if we use DS9 as a guide, things get worse before they get better. Using a plot device to make things completely awful for a cliff hanger may not be a TNG thing (though, it was used in The Best of Both Worlds), it is definitely used in DS9.

Before saying it's not Trek, I'd suggest you watch the series Deep Space Nine, or at least the episodes Favor the Bold and Sacrifice of Angels. Those are both canonically Trek, and the foundation for this FE.
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