Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-12-2012, 09:58 PM
Some of the most memorable and favourite TV episodes of Star Trek are not Action. I definitely don't think of pew-pew when I think of Star Trek. I liked Picard more before he became an Action Star.

The challenge is combining non-action (non combative) gameplay into a MMO mechanic, that is both fun, and will retain player interest. They were on the right track with the original Diplomacy but only went about 1/3 of the way and never matured fully. The new DOFF system is interesting but stale and ... well feels like RL work to me!

STO will only become Star Trek when Real Exploration of Unknown Space is introduced. Forget random instanced star-clusters, we need real sectors & location linked with hidden pathways allowing access to alien worlds and stations (no star charts please).

I doubt we will ever get this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-12-2012, 10:34 PM
I just wish they would stop the Fed vs Klingon wars its nuts.. we are at WAR except in Battle Group Omega, oh and the STFs, oh and also we'll come to DS9 to talk about it and even though Fed ships can wizz by in our space we are still at war... *sigh*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-12-2012, 10:36 PM
Although Star Trek shows a brighter future for humanity; it has never shown a future completely devoid of war and strife. Even if you ignore the dark turns that Deep Space Nine takes, If you look up Federation history on Memory-Alpha, Next Generation itself mentions several conflicts that happen before the series starts.

The Tomed Incident of 2311 costing several thousand lives and leading to half a century of Romulan Isolation. The Federation-Cardassian war which didn't even technically end until part way into Next Gen. The Tholians destroyed a Starbase in 2353. A 3 year conflict with the Talarians in the 2350s. That's just Next Gen references to wars, not to mention the Tzenkethi somewhere the 2360s that Deep Space Nine adds to the lore or any of the conflicts The Original Series mentioned.

Yes the Federation may prefer peace, and it may look for a diplomatic solution, but they are not strangers to fighting. Depending on when some of those conflicts that had more nebulous dates, they may not even be a stranger to fighting multiple small wars or border skirmishes simultaneously. The big difference between STO (and Deep Space Nine) and Next Generation is that for once we see the conflict.

Star Trek is a brighter future, but it was shown as a future that was bought with struggle and hard work. And sometimes that struggle is a fight for survival.

The struggles that Cryptic is showing is actually more upbeat and optimistic compared to what the books did. The book line has the borg invade in 2381 and ends up killing sixty-three billion people in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, the destruction of 40% of Star Fleet and entire Federation worlds, including Risa, being killed off.

Here is a memory-bata link to what the books did if you are interested (there will be spoilers)
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_Invasion_of_2381

Between the two I think I prefer what Cyptics doing story wise (so far).

That being said, I would not mind a more peaceful setting. I'm just saying its not as 'out of character' for the IP and lore as some people would say..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-12-2012, 11:07 PM
I think many folks here are missing the entire point the OP is trying to make, that is in regards to Star Trek Online and not Star Trek in and of itself.

for starters the game completely makes Star Trek a mockery, in that it intentionally sets off events that would never had transpired in a Star Trek television series, I'm referring to the complete chaotic state of the Alpha Quadrant itself.

I do not like how this game portrays the Klingon Empire - for the mere reason that this game portrays them as instigators of war for the sake of Klingon honor. It belittles the race as a whole.

Gene Roddenberry himself even stated - "There is no such thing as an evil race," when in reference to comments made in regards to the Klingons (Whom by the way, represented communist Russia in the 60's & the Cold War)

When it comes down to the theme of Star Trek Online, several things come to mind:

A) The need to make a playable game in which violence seems to be the route to go - for starters the space portion of this game plays like an arcade space game.

B) There is no money to be made in peaceful and exploration type game (Works well in a single player game, but for an MMO, no way Jose) -

C) The lack of innovation in the writing team - To include every single character or their decendents for the sake of adding them in is a bad sign of terrible writing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-13-2012, 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
I really like Star Trek Online but I really dislike the dark, depressing hopelessness that seems to be its most prevalent themes.

Star Trek has always been about hope, and optimism, progress and peace.

When I was playing "Second Wave", an episode that I thought they did a really good job on, I despaired at the admiral saying "The Federation has about 3 years left before we are completely destroyed by the borg!"

THAT IS SO DEPRESSING! 3 years??? Do you know how bad that makes things? That is all but hopeless. That is not humanity reaching out to the stars and evolving to the next level, it is our inevitable doom.

Now, I am not complaining about this one line, but I think it represents what Star Trek Online is thematically all about: we're at war WITH EVERYONE, we're killing and being killed, and we're doomed.

I remember when the game launched and I'd get those missions in nebula where you investigate an empty base. As you read the reports on the terminals, in each every single one, you learn that EVERYONE YOU'VE COME TO RESCUE IS DEAD. This is what eventually was called a "diplomacy" mission. The scientists opened a wormhole to the Delta Quadrant? Dead. The advisors on the Gorn border? Dead. They're all dead, never saved at the end by your team. One group died ina cave-in. How horrible and sad!

I'm not saying we shouldn't fight the borg. I'm not saying we need non-violent missions. Obviously these things should be what the game is about. But I'd like to see more of an emphasis on hope and optimism.

I'm still hoping that the 3800 end up allying themselves with the Federation at the very end of the saga and flying off to fight the borg to help save everyone. I want to see an entire series about Deffera joining the Federation. Throw in attacks and battles, but have the objective be us fighting for unity, not just fighting a hopeless battle to survive.

Does anyone else agree? Again, I am focussing on theme, aesthetic, and feel. I'd like more of this game to feel like Star Trek and not Starship Troopers.
No, I completely agree that "we have 3 years left", you see, those in the know are aware that BORG is just a code word. It is a code word used to replace "lack of development, support, listening to players, bug fixes, and chinese/korean mmo f2p model"

However, I think 3 years is being generous. Only well developed mmos with active support last more then 4, at least in the west. This includes the likes of DDO, EVE, and as much as I hate to say it, WoW. STO will not break 7 years without radical chance to the f2p model, the development crew, and the direction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-13-2012, 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV7
I think many folks here are missing the entire point the OP is trying to make, that is in regards to Star Trek Online and not Star Trek in and of itself.

for starters the game completely makes Star Trek a mockery, in that it intentionally sets off events that would never had transpired in a Star Trek television series, I'm referring to the complete chaotic state of the Alpha Quadrant itself.

I do not like how this game portrays the Klingon Empire - for the mere reason that this game portrays them as instigators of war for the sake of Klingon honor. It belittles the race as a whole.

Gene Roddenberry himself even stated - "There is no such thing as an evil race," when in reference to comments made in regards to the Klingons (Whom by the way, represented communist Russia in the 60's & the Cold War)

When it comes down to the theme of Star Trek Online, several things come to mind:

A) The need to make a playable game in which violence seems to be the route to go - for starters the space portion of this game plays like an arcade space game.

B) There is no money to be made in peaceful and exploration type game (Works well in a single player game, but for an MMO, no way Jose) -

C) The lack of innovation in the writing team - To include every single character or their decendents for the sake of adding them in is a bad sign of terrible writing.
Some may remember I got banned sometime last year for calling Cryptic a bunch of greedy ferengi and saying that them and their writers *******ised star trek.

I have been talking about these 3 points, and the fact that this is nothing like a star trek game should be, for a very long time.

Star Trek, as a game of diplomacy, exploration, research, and combat CAN work in an mmo format, and would be successful with the Star Trek, and science fiction in general, fans. They tried to cater to the wow babies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
02-13-2012, 02:23 AM
And a 1......and a......2....and a....3.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K71UbC1EaSE
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-13-2012, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV7
I
E) If you seen the original Path to 2409 - you can see the travesty and mockery of Star Trek lore all over the place. This game made the Klingons look like a bunch of bloodthirsty warmongering Barbarians that goes on a random violent spree because its the honorable thing to do - OMG! who the hell came up with that notion over at CRYPTIC studio - Fanboyism at its best
This.
The whole war setup is ridiculous, plus the inconsisteny in said "war" which is *permanently* set aside to ally against a bazillion bigger foes really makes the whole "Fed-Kling war" obsolete.

I'm not against the darker tones of Star Trek, DS9 being my favourite. But I don't like the bending and bashing on the established Star Trek canon just to make more bugs out of c-store-pew-pew things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
02-13-2012, 04:28 AM
Uh, not "this".

Are you guys actually following the storyline? Didnīt the basic premise of sowing discord and treachery through "INFILTRATION" somehow not sink in?

The Klinks look like a bunch of warmongering bloodthirsty oath-breakers because THATīS what they are at the moment with basically the House of Duras leading them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs7200
Here is a memory-bata link to what the books did if you are interested (there will be spoilers)
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_Invasion_of_2381

Between the two I think I prefer what Cyptics doing story wise (so far)..
I definitely do!

That is the cheesiest most Deus Ex Machina crap storyline Iīve seen In quite a while. The average "Yet Another Transporter Power" episode beats that hands down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-13-2012, 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
Uh, not "this".

Are you guys actually following the storyline? Didnīt the basic premise of sowing discord and treachery through "INFILTRATION" somehow not sink in?

The Klinks look like a bunch of warmongering bloodthirsty oath-breakers because THATīS what they are at the moment with basically the House of Duras leading them.
I definitely do!

That is the cheesiest most Deus Ex Machina crap storyline Iīve seen In quite a while. The average "Yet Another Transporter Power" episode beats that hands down.

Spoilers:
Yeah I sort of agree with the OP. when it comes to needing more real diplomacy missions. But... The story about the chaos in the alpha quadrant makes sense. basically it was the undine who started it all. But of course it looks like they were fooled by the Iconians. so this whole Klingon Fed war was a setup. this could all lead to a fed/ klink peace treaty to go after the iconians.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:23 PM.