Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
02-13-2012, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
The draw for an MMO would be the canon, not the IP theme. People want to live out their Trek fantasies they saw on screen. An MMO which had no real ties to 21 seasons of TNG era Trek would not be well received, IMO. While I would personally like to see a lot more focus on the 25th Century timeline (more new ships, races, gear, etc) I can understand why it was done this way.
I can kind of see that reasoning, but I think it's doing more damage than good. I mean, look at SWTOR. They went 4000 years into the past. They kept the same themes and basic mechanics, but are telling their own stories in their own ways. You can keep what's uniquely Trek while still moving it to a new time frame without losing the feel. Everything in this time frame is too close to existing canon and feels too constrained by it to allow for any real freedom or creativity. If you want direct ties to the past, there are always time-travel missions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu
Your question is its own answer. Doing so would set definite limitations on their freedom to reshape the story in accordance with the nature of a MMO. Honestly I think they made the right decision here.

Consider Starfleet Command - it was set during the 2260s, in a time period similar to STO - after TOS but before TNG and Undiscovered Country - when the galaxy was in a state of chaos.

That said, the rest of the franchise, going forward, will probably have to write STO off as one massive retcon.
Nothing in STO will ever be canon anyway, so why bother trying to force it into the box. They needed to something creative, which cannot be done in this time frame or any so close to existing canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestu
I started writing a critical response, but thinking about it more, it's actually a pretty good idea.
Thanks!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
02-13-2012, 09:53 AM
I think what the OP is saying is, there needs to be light at the end of the tunnel, something worth fighting for, a Hope for success! A hope for better times- Not a struggle just to survive; which is the theme in the game as it stands now! The Federation is Fighting for Survival with little prospect of Hope or a light at the End of the Conflict.

I think that conflict makes a good story, but so does conflict where the end result is good triumphs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
02-13-2012, 09:59 AM
OP is right, all these dire situations are way to much. Instead we should just sit at the conference table and discuss the merits of intergalactic civilization.

Quote:
Pay attention to the post, Cryptic! It's time to end some of the wars!!!!
I think we're starting to see signs of that, with the latest episode. Also remember that not everything in the game is happening at the exact same time, I think I remember reading somewhere that is goes from 2409 to 2411 when you hit VA. [SPOILER]So at the start of the game the Klingon War is at it's height, but towards the end it's petering out at the threat of the Borg becomes more relevant. And then at the very end after the Undine Incursion we start to learn more of the Iconion Threat which also makes itself known in the Romulan Front, but their intentions aren't really clear until later. The entire situation has pretty much been engineered by the Iconians to destabilize the Galaxy, to make sure there is no peace. As the player character you're gradually unraveling this mystery while attempting to explore, protect and all that jazz.[/SPOILER] It doesn't make a whole lot of sense true, but if were just fighting the Klingons over and over it would get stale, and if there was no conflict there would be no game really. Or would you really rather spend the game sitting at a conference talking about things? There has to be something going on to give the player a reason to continue. It's easy to think the Borg aren't a big enough threat to really conquer the Alpha Quadrant in 3 years but They've already taken a good chunk of territory away in Gamma Orionis and are threatening the rest of the Quadrant. But that being said both the Federation and Klingon Empire still hold their power bases and have thus far repulsed Borg Incursions. I think the Admiral Guy was just using the lowest number given to him to try to scare the other delegates into joining. He was really depressing anyway.

Quote:
Everything in this time frame is too close to existing canon and feels too constrained by it to allow for any real freedom or creativity.
Methinks CBS might have dropped the hammer if they'd tried. I think it's far enough out from existing canon myself, but the way in which you play and the pace in which you can complete missions makes everything feel bunched together.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
02-13-2012, 10:00 AM
A nation doesn't go to war unless it thinks it can win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrafortune
OP is right, all these dire situations are way to much. Instead we should just sit at the conference table and discuss the merits of intergalactic civilization...

I think we're starting to see signs of that, with the latest episode.
Then what? Adds up to the same thing which is throw in the towel or reinvent the game.

I would prefer the latter. Not because it would extend the life of the game but because it would realize more if its potential.

Oh. But it's not going to happen. Just saying...it'd be nice...lol...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
02-13-2012, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorSTAFF
Does anyone else agree? Again, I am focussing on theme, aesthetic, and feel. I'd like more of this game to feel like Star Trek and not Starship Troopers.
I have always found it sad that the Devs abandoned the underlying threat to the quadrant and the war between the KDF and the federation over the KDFs agressive expansion in the wake of the Romulans powerbase being fractured.
I still find it sad that They did not expand the KDF (and complete the fed) factions involvment in the Undine hunt and rooting out of thier involvment in this whole debacle through a long , up through the ranks storyline series of missions that explained what is going on and gave in part a reason to the KDF/ feddie conflicts.
I find it unfortunate that the Romulan fracturing of power and leaderships is not better fleshed out via storyline missions for both the KDf and federation, so as a palyer one can learn the why's, whats and goings on of the Romulan civil war that is looming but ignored for the most aprt.

The war was never given full flesh on the KDF side of why we are at odds (expansion and Undine distrust) and the feds had a sloppy introduction to it that did not allow for a strictly fed aproach to the situation.
Basically the feds nieghbors (KDF and Romulan) are up to thier own ambitions and desires in this Star trek setting and do not care for teh input of why the federation thinsk it should not be the case. We Klingon wish to expand our Empire and do so at our own design, The Romulans have a powerbase struggle going on to see who will rebuild thier Empire and every boogeyman from the past has taken the initative to use the imbalance of power in the quandrant to attack or pursue thier own goals.
I have no issue with this and just wish it was betetr displayed through storyline missions to help the off-the-street player understand the polictal landscape.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
02-13-2012, 10:58 AM
That's kind of been one of the storytelling problems with the game.

The KDF war was left incomplete.

The Iconian storyline is mysterious and half-done.

The Borg still haven't even been fully fleshed out but they've been given the most attention.

The Undine were left up in the air.

It's like they toss something out there and then just wait for another chance to shove some Borg back into play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
02-13-2012, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havraha View Post
What you're referring to is ultimately your own idea of what Star Trek is.
And no more invalid than anyone else's... including, I would contend, Cryptic's. The only thing Cryptic has over the OP is a license to make money off of their version of Trek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havraha View Post
Which is a very humorous take to me, because most modern anthropologists would argue that there is no such thing as a "savage" culture, but simply a different one than what you're use to. Not exactly the tolerant, principled future Picard thought it lived in, huh?
Your ironic sense of humor aside, this was actually lampshaded in the novel Ship of the Line, when Frasier^H Morgan Bateson lays the verbal smackdown on Riker:

Riker: "We work to better ourselves!"
Bateson: "Better than whom?"
Riker: *sheepish* "... You got me there, Sir."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havraha View Post
Voyager was certainly darker as well, although I would argue that was probably moreso the fault of Janeway being an absolute lunatic.
Personally, I blame Neelix and his cooking. He realized too late that he'd cooked in too much psychoactive blastotoxin and got out while the getting was good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havraha View Post
So this happy uplifting universe of Star Trek you think is so prevalent, really isn't in the grand scheme of things.
Except, in a sense, it was optimistic. Things like Threshold aside, Trek really did emphasize that through hard work, dedication to principles and values, and relying on solid solutions rather than faith, humanity (by which they mean all people) can not only survive but thrive. Yes, I said 'solid solutions' in regard to a series that has multiphasic phlebotinum in almost every episode, was the source of the "particle of the week" trope, and used 'technobabble' as a stage direction. I hope my point is made, though, despite that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by megacount
Maybe it is a sign of the times reflecting the mood of our modern society where things seem somewhat grim to many people.
This is quite likely. Trek has always proven to be a useful vehicle for the expression of current trends, concerns, and issues as seen through a space opera lens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Deep Space 9 was much darker in tone than TNG and Voyager. So this episode has that DS9 bleakness to it.
While I agree, there is an overall DS9 bleakness to the setting overall. ("In the grim darkness of the 24th Century....") You can't get much more DS9'y than that Romulan Front mission where you (rot13'd*) trg beqref gb tb gb n Ebzhyna qrrc fcnpr erfrnepu fgngvba, xvyy rirelbar nobneq, naq ner vafgehzragny va gur vasvygengvba bs gur Ebzhyna Fgne Anil ol na Haqvar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV7
D) There is no FUN in a peaceful setting (So they think) - so lets blow the crap out every Tom, D!ck, Harry that lives in space. People love ships, will buy ships, and there is no money to be made in selling a freighter at the CStore - War, more war (In reality - there is money to be made in war - says the Ferengi)
While you approach the topic with considerable vitriol, there is more than a grain of truth here. Making a non-war story is creatively and technically difficult; combining it with war themes even harder. To be able to tell the full panoply of stories that Trek has told requires a re-thinking of MMOs. The majority of MMOs have combat ("Defeat N of X," "Bring me the head of **** Morant," "Find N samoflanges in the territory of the People Who Will Attack You On Sight.") Making a predominantly non-combat MMO is possible but has proven to be niche and not much of a moneymaker.

Also, this goes back to the many-vision theory of Trek: Everyone has a different approach. The non-combat approach, while laudable, and demonstrated a lot of times in TNG at least, is only one vision. The 'whiz-bang military tech starships fire phasers BOOM!' view is also popular -- you just have to take a look at Misato Ozaki's Starfleet Museum, or the online Starship Schematics Database.** Naturally you find a blend of the two, but Trek fanfic runs the entire gamut. And, that's generally okay. It becomes rather schizophrenic when you try to figure out what values a particular licensed author is holding when reading their work.

When STO was made, there wasn't a lot of time to develop non-combat systems, and that's a shame. There's a vast untapped field there, of cooperative non-combat activity, and naturally the potential to combine that with more shooty gameplay for a broad-spectrum, well-rounded experience. But it's really hard to do non-combat action, and that's not necessarilly Cryptic's fault for falling into that easy-to-implement paradigm.


* - because I know I'll get yelled at for spoilers, but most of you know what this is anyway.
** - Home of the
Ninja-class escort! Take aspirin before viewing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
02-13-2012, 11:05 AM
The (latest) Fed-Klin War needs to end. It won't, for the sake of PvP and factional conflict which, it seems, every MMO these days needs, but... the thing is, the Klingons have been proven right - the Undine are in control - and the Feds need to acknowledge that and clean their own house, while the Klingons need to stop fighting the wrong enemy(s). "Only a fool fights in a burning house," as the famous proverb goes.

But it won't, because the story can't and won't move forward, because it would require rewriting the whole flippin' game - a Cataclysm-level project, from a Dev team that can only manage (on average) one Foundry-quality mission plus cheesy voice acting per month.

EDIT: Also, as I've been known to joke, a real Trek game would have to have each mission preach some moral in a very unsubtle way - Racism (or Discrimination in general) is Bad, Drugs are Bad, War is Bad, Letting Computers Control Things is Bad...

(First season TNG was all about Humans Used to be Bad, but are now Totally Perfect, and Insufferably Smug About It. :p )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
02-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
That's kind of been one of the storytelling problems with the game.

The KDF war was left incomplete.

The Iconian storyline is mysterious and half-done.

The Borg still haven't even been fully fleshed out but they've been given the most attention.

The Undine were left up in the air.

It's like they toss something out there and then just wait for another chance to shove some Borg back into play.
I always wondered why the main point of why this game's story(ies) exist is becasue the Undine created the Fed v KDF war and yet after only a few misisons the Undine just dissapear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
02-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Deep Space 9 was much darker in tone than TNG and Voyager. So this episode has that DS9 bleakness to it.
This. Exactly this.

Writer Kestrel is merely mirroring the darker, bleaker tone that the Deep Space Nine series often embraced, and since these Featured Episodes are making use of DS9 plot threads ... it makes a certain sense.

Cheers,

KOS
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