Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 An odd FE experience
02-12-2012, 07:06 PM
Nothing that spectacular but this is just a slightly humorous issue I ran into that was completely unexpected. I remember saying how this FE would not be much of a challenge and for the most part that seems correct but to my surprise when I first got into the ground combat I found myself getting my tail handed to me.

Was it that difficult? I have taken on the Undine, the Borg, Borgified Undine, Klingons, Romulans, you name it many many times before and have some GREAT gear... So a few Jemmies are kicking my tail all of sudden?

No, it was not that difficult. However, I have been grinding Space STF's SO LONG that I have completely forgotten how to play the ground stuff. I hardly remembered what my kit was for, what buttons to push, that there is no Auto-Fire on the ground, that your shields disappear in a split second, and without my BOFF's there to watch my tail it was lights out.

Sure, I recalled enough to get through it after having bit the big one but the death itself came as a huge surprise to me. I never felt much of a challenge in ground combat after Season 4 hit, and they made everything a one shot wonder, but suddenly this was an actual challenge. However, it was not the good sort of challenge. It was the BAD sort of challenge. It was the sort of challenge where you are fighting the controls because they are ungainly and awkward. I could hardly control myself and the stupid Crouch/Aim Mode Split thing was nothing short of driving me nuts... It was like "I Want to hit harder not duck. No! I don't want to duck and sure do not want to ROLL!... RRRR!!!"... I really think these two things need to just be put back together, either that or make Shooter mode into the Aim Mode and make that deal more damage. Maybe then I would want to USE Shooter mode... Maybe.

When I finally got back into my ship it was like "Thank Q! I can finally kick some butt again! Geeze...". I had never really hated on Ground Combat before but now I can honestly say I really do not like STO's ground game that much... It is so ungainly and clunky... It was fine when I had adapted to its crap factor (to steal a term lol) but once you have lost that adaptation it really feels awkward and anything but smooth and fluent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-17-2012, 09:10 PM
I always run Ground Elite STFs, I get newbs. I think you should practice in ground, and then get into Ground normals. Then you start playing a balance of ground in space, like one day you mainly play ground STFs, next day you play mainly space STFs... and practice, I love ground, ground is fun in this game. Space is fun too, but I like ground more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-17-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGalaxy
I always run Ground Elite STFs, I get newbs. I think you should practice in ground, and then get into Ground normals. Then you start playing a balance of ground in space, like one day you mainly play ground STFs, next day you play mainly space STFs... and practice, I love ground, ground is fun in this game. Space is fun too, but I like ground more.
Definitely NOT going to run STF's on the ground. Most people can barely handle space STF's and it is frustrating enough getting them through those. The ground STF's take way too long and are far too difficult for the reward.

Mind you: I am not grinding STF's for fun. I grind them to get the sets I want and nothing more. So it is basically "Time is chips! Get it done now!" with me.


As for fighting on the ground in general... I used to do it fairly often... but as I said, I have been doing nothing but space for so long now that I really realize just how pathetic ground combat is. It is VERY uncontrollable by comparison. You walk all around, your targeting is terribly imprecise which, is not what you need in the middle of a fire fight, your shields last for 2 or 3 hits at best and serve little to no function, you desperately need to use cover but this is NOT the sort of game that should require that because unlike Gears of War or Halo its control and availability of cover is extremely lacking... I understand why they wanted to make use of a cover system but the part they forgot is the "System"... There is no cover system in this game. It is just "HOPE there is something to hide behind and TRY to get back behind it. Now try to keep your target, strafe out and TRY to shoot something before having to hide again."

Add to that the frustrating Crouch/Aim Mode split... It is really just not fun anymore. It was so much better when things would actually FIGHT you instead of dying after one or two shots. Everyone is just going around one shotting each other. It may be realistic (assuming this armor and those shields are just for Lulz) but it is not really fun in a game that is NOT an FPS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-18-2012, 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGalaxy
I always run Ground Elite STFs, I get newbs. I think you should practice in ground, and then get into Ground normals. Then you start playing a balance of ground in space, like one day you mainly play ground STFs, next day you play mainly space STFs... and practice, I love ground, ground is fun in this game. Space is fun too, but I like ground more.
Same here. Jem'hadar don't seem that threatening when you're used to going toe-to-toe with elite tactical drones. Of course the downside was that I remodulated... often.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-18-2012, 08:54 AM
i only play STFs on ground, and sometimes if the group calls for it i run along in space (i am GOOOD at space... i just think it's a bit boring, and i feel no need to get the space XII sets because the BORG set is still better for my playstyle )

what i'm saying is, if you want to play with GOOD groups on the ground, who actually can handle the optionals 50% of the time... (instead of NEVER) then join the "EliteSTF" chat channel, i run with those guys whenever i want, it's not a Clan so no hassle and no one can force you to join a stupid TS channel either.


and leave my separate duck / aim animation alone

aim at C and crouch at X works just fine, just set your keybids properly and remember them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-18-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
Same here. Jem'hadar don't seem that threatening when you're used to going toe-to-toe with elite tactical drones. Of course the downside was that I remodulated... often.
Now THAT is funny... Reminds me of when I try to click and move the screen on Youtube Vids of STO.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CptBANG View Post
i only play STFs on ground, and sometimes if the group calls for it i run along in space (i am GOOOD at space... i just think it's a bit boring, and i feel no need to get the space XII sets because the BORG set is still better for my playstyle )

what i'm saying is, if you want to play with GOOD groups on the ground, who actually can handle the optionals 50% of the time... (instead of NEVER) then join the "EliteSTF" chat channel, i run with those guys whenever i want, it's not a Clan so no hassle and no one can force you to join a stupid TS channel either.


and leave my separate duck / aim animation alone

aim at C and crouch at X works just fine, just set your keybids properly and remember them.

The problem being that the simple fact remains: Ground STF's take too long. Time/Reward calculations tell me that Space is the way to get your Chips. I have 4 characters I want set pieces for so I do not have time to wander around dealing with clunky ground controls trying to deal with the Borg all day. KA is practically too long in this regard (especially if the folks you are with have no idea what to do...).

Cannot say I see the point in looking closer over my shoulder more closely when in "Aim Mode"... Why not use the Shooter mode for Aiming? That would make a lot more sense. (Wish Snipers had a real scope...) Having those two separated on a controller would be acceptable but still weird that you would need an "Aim" mode... X for me switches weapons and I could put it on R or F or something but eh... Not really worth my time to worry about it too much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-18-2012, 06:02 PM
Honestly, I find the ground combat more fun.

Did you have skill points appropriately allocated for ground? Were your shields and armor appropriately matched to your level? Did you use any tactics (like not pulling multiple mobs, running around corners to avoid fire)? Did you use tribbles?

I have to say, you can't blame dying or thinking that the system is clunky if you haven't practiced it or set yourself up right. My shields can take multiple hits, and if they go down I use kit powers to control enemies or heal myself, or use shield batteries or hypos.



I have all the controls mapped out to keyboard and memorized them so I don't have to think about it. Here's how I handled the Second Wave ground section where the Jem'Hadar beamed into DS9 and I was alone (other than the Gorn and the extra help you get from the optional):

On my sci it's about hitting them with a tachyon harmonic to knock down and elimiate their shields, sensor scan debuffing them and them shooting them all while my nanite health monitor, medical tricorder and vascular regen powers keep me alive and tanking.

On my eng I weapon malfunctioned them, fuse armor to slow them down, used shield regen to keep myself protected and cover shield to duck behind as protection.

On my tac it was all about using target optics to see the Jem'Hadar while cloaked, throwing plasma grenades at them and using my fire on mark and supressing fire tac powers to buff myself and debuff them. They died very quickly.

When you use all your stuff effectively it works. My favourite moments were when I was being hit from multiple enemies, and my health was low I used crouch and that helped my beat them before I died because you could visibly see in the combat log "dodged" when they tried to hit me - I was avoiding the shots. And the best bit was when three Jem Hadar decloaked around me and I did a backwards roll and killed all three with a split beam shot.

I had fun.
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