Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralBannon View Post
I think it's quite simple why D'Vak didn't participate in any kind.
When the plot for this episode was written, D'Vak was still on the U.S.S. Victory in Gamma Orionis as a simple captain and quest giver for the pre season 5 STF's and not that big badazz Omega Force Leader he is now.
Cryptic just doesn't want to make the effort to bring him to this story, because they think most of us wouldn't mention that anyway.

IMHO it is really ridiculous, that the leader of the Omega Force, which was designed to face the Borg threat is not participating in such an important conference.
To be honest, he's still there anyway! We have D'Vak on the Battle Force Omega fleet, and D'Vak in DS9 - explain that to me eh?


To be honest I saw it as the Gorn being sent as a diplomat rather than a warrior? I don't know mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-13-2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneemann View Post
This or they will include the 2800 series into the cardassian chain. That way the conference on DS9 would basically be the prelude to BG Omega and the Borg missions - and D'Vak would at the time 2800 takes place just be some average klingon captain selling prisoners to orion slavers, raiding peaceful colonies and what else klingons do when not standing at DS9.
I honestly hope they do not. Cryptic's mixing up storyline continuities for the sake of gameplay.

For instance, how they blew the Iconian surprise with the Reman episodes and revealing them long before the Gamma Orionis missions. Or how they ruined the Section 31 plot by putting the Devidian Featured Event as part of the Klingon Chain. But with this mission, they specifically mention the Iconians as part of the threat which ruins the missions in Gamma Orionis.


That is why I really would like Cryptic to redo the Episode Page and maintain a storyline continuity. For example:
  • A 2409 Tab - the STO original missions
  • A "Late 2409" tab with the first three FEs
  • A 2410 storyline with the Borg Advance, the Dominion Fleet, and the new missions to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeslyn
...Maybe they could add a second line about Andrews' nationality.
I seen people question if shes Irish or Scotish. But to me, she could be from the Mariposa Colony.

For those who don't remember, it's the TNG episode (Up the Long Ladder) where you had the two lost Earth Colonies with one being the clones of Mariposa and the other were the rural Bringloidi.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-13-2012, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
What was wrong with Second Wave?

1. 30+ years have passed since the Dominion War. Starfleet has made significant strides in weapons and shields technology. Yet, DS9 fell in like 5 minutes.

2. An important conference is occuring, with delegates from major powers in the galaxy. The normal mode of operation is to protect that conference with any and all resources available. Essentially, a blockade in space, and 2-3x the normal security on the station itself. Apparently, the chief of Starfleet Security didn't get the memo.

3. Ops was left unattended, which directly resulted in the death of Karen Andrews. There is only one time in all of DS9 that I can recall Ops being so undefended. The episode was "Babel" and the reason it was undefended is because all the senior staff had been overcome with the aphasia virus. Where was the security in Ops? Why was Karen Andrews the sole person in the one place on the entire station that must be defended at all costs?

4. Karen Andrews orders Red Alert. We all know that when Red Alert is issued, shields go up. Yet, the Dominion's attack damages the station like the shields weren't up. When Sisko and company lost the station the first time, they put up a better fight, and it took the Dominion significantly longer to take the station than this.

5. I blew up every ship around DS9. Including the Dreadnought and the Battlecruisers. In an Exeter Class Cruiser. There were no ships left surrounding DS9. Yet, we lost? The Dominion holds the station? BULLS@#$!!!!

I could go on, but really, these are more than enough points to cause some headscratching and general wondering about what Cryptic did with a year's worth of time to develop this farce.
These are excellent points. I'm really dumfounded as to why the station failed, when we have 40 year better technology than this Dominion fleet, all the advancements gone into fighting the Borg, and it can't defend itself against a 40 year old dominion fleet? Come on.

Lots of plot holes I'm not happy with, as you pointed out above.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
What was wrong with Second Wave?
Fair points, I hope they will be answered in the later episodes, so they are more plot points than plot holes. Again, in my vain attempt to rationalize:

- The Dominion fleet may not have simply been transported in time from one point to another, and experienced the actual passage of time (up to 30 years) and made similar magnitudes of technological improvements (new "Super Polarized-Tachyon Beams" that drain shields?)... Exactly how they achieved this and how they survived that long is a bit of a mystery though (Cloning new soldiers? Found way to replicated White? What about the playble Jem'Hadar ships?)

- Re: lack of security, yeah this I don't get.

- Ops definitely should have been more lively before the talks started and during the initial attack... the last scene with Andews though, I can understand that all other Ops personnel were evacuated, leaving Andrews and a skeleton crew in other parts of the station to help get people to the escapecraft.

- I don't think the intention was to have players (be able to) defeat the invading fleet. Kinda goes against the whole story. I can forgive this as players tend to find ways to "break" out of the typical linear quest design the developers set out. Maybe after the path is cleared, some kind of invisible space wall goes up between the Dominion fleet and the 4 ships you are told to save, and if you get close to it, your Science Officer pops up and says "Captain, we have to focus on getting these people to safety!" would help... assuming I can accept invisible space walls.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-13-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
What was wrong with Second Wave?

1. 30+ years have passed since the Dominion War. Starfleet has made significant strides in weapons and shields technology. Yet, DS9 fell in like 5 minutes.

(snip)

I could go on, but really, these are more than enough points to cause some headscratching and general wondering about what Cryptic did with a year's worth of time to develop this farce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Doctor.
These are excellent points. I'm really dumfounded as to why the station failed, when we have 40 year better technology than this Dominion fleet, all the advancements gone into fighting the Borg, and it can't defend itself against a 40 year old dominion fleet? Come on.

Lots of plot holes I'm not happy with, as you pointed out above.

This, other than the Romulan absence, is probably what bothered me the most. 30-40 years into the future and the Jem'Hadar take the station that easily...

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt for 1 second:

Let's assume for a minute that there are maybe 5 ships per faction in the diplomatic convoys, plus 10-20 more for the Federation security force. That's 35 ships. Let's also say the 2800 were all there despite us not seeing them (graphical limitations). So, let's say the 2800 Jem'Hadar are able to overwhelm that force and the station, despite the technological differences, since that seems reasonable given massively overewhelming numbers.

One would then have to assume that the Jem'Hadar took some heavy losses despite their victory. It's also probable that most of the Fed/Klingon/Deferi ships in the area were destroyed as well.

I supposed that next week or two, a diplomatic mission will be sent to the Gamma Quadrant to find Odo to see if the attack can be stopped, in typical Federation diplomatic fashion. Once they figure out it's the 30-year old fleet, and not initiated by the Founders, a mixed fleet of 200-300 Fed/Klingon vessels will easily mop the floor with the Jem'Hadar and the series will be, in effect, over.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-13-2012, 01:13 PM
I kinda forgot if this was the case (though I'm pretty sure it was), but did any of the Jem'Hadar in this mission have personal shields? If they did, that might have to be looked into, seeing as the tech didn't exist when this fleet first set out on its mission during the Dominion War...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-13-2012, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
What was wrong with Second Wave?

1. 30+ years have passed since the Dominion War. Starfleet has made significant strides in weapons and shields technology. Yet, DS9 fell in like 5 minutes.
This was essentially a Pearl Harbor. No one expected a full-scale invasion force to pop out of the wormhole.

Quote:
2. An important conference is occuring, with delegates from major powers in the galaxy. The normal mode of operation is to protect that conference with any and all resources available. Essentially, a blockade in space, and 2-3x the normal security on the station itself. Apparently, the chief of Starfleet Security didn't get the memo.
Eh, I'm letting this one slide. If security were in place on the station, our captain wouldn't have as much to do. A blockade in space is kinda impossible, given 3-dimensional travel. Plus, this came straight from the wormhole, not other sectors.

Quote:
3. Ops was left unattended, which directly resulted in the death of Karen Andrews. There is only one time in all of DS9 that I can recall Ops being so undefended. The episode was "Babel" and the reason it was undefended is because all the senior staff had been overcome with the aphasia virus. Where was the security in Ops? Why was Karen Andrews the sole person in the one place on the entire station that must be defended at all costs?
Andrews specifically says that everyone has been evacuated, save a few key personnel. She sent everyone else to safety, and effectively sacrificed herself in doing so.

Quote:
4. Karen Andrews orders Red Alert. We all know that when Red Alert is issued, shields go up. Yet, the Dominion's attack damages the station like the shields weren't up. When Sisko and company lost the station the first time, they put up a better fight, and it took the Dominion significantly longer to take the station than this.
This one's more of a nitpick than anything else. Easily retconned if you say the Dominion ships fired before Red Alert could be implemented.

Quote:
5. I blew up every ship around DS9. Including the Dreadnought and the Battlecruisers. In an Exeter Class Cruiser. There were no ships left surrounding DS9. Yet, we lost? The Dominion holds the station? BULLS@#$!!!!
Well, Cryptic could have made it so it was impossible to win if you engaged the Dreadnought, but that's not much fun. Your job was to punch a hole and escort the other ships to safety. As far as the story goes, that was the end of it.

Quote:
I could go on, but really, these are more than enough points to cause some headscratching and general wondering about what Cryptic did with a year's worth of time to develop this farce.
Farce? A little suspension of disbelief works wonders. It is, after all, a game. If nothing else, they can make a few edits to fix those small points, but only we hardcore fans are likely to find it eyebrow-raising.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-13-2012, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
I seen people question if shes Irish or Scotish. But to me, she could be from the Mariposa Colony.

For those who don't remember, it's the TNG episode (Up the Long Ladder) where you had the two lost Earth Colonies with one being the clones of Mariposa and the other were the rural Bringloidi.


Hey, there you goooo. *nods* I could accept that as a viable answer. You should post that in the Andrews thread. Its a good theory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-13-2012, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
What was wrong with Second Wave?

1. 30+ years have passed since the Dominion War. Starfleet has made significant strides in weapons and shields technology. Yet, DS9 fell in like 5 minutes.

2. An important conference is occuring, with delegates from major powers in the galaxy. The normal mode of operation is to protect that conference with any and all resources available. Essentially, a blockade in space, and 2-3x the normal security on the station itself. Apparently, the chief of Starfleet Security didn't get the memo.

3. Ops was left unattended, which directly resulted in the death of Karen Andrews. There is only one time in all of DS9 that I can recall Ops being so undefended. The episode was "Babel" and the reason it was undefended is because all the senior staff had been overcome with the aphasia virus. Where was the security in Ops? Why was Karen Andrews the sole person in the one place on the entire station that must be defended at all costs?

4. Karen Andrews orders Red Alert. We all know that when Red Alert is issued, shields go up. Yet, the Dominion's attack damages the station like the shields weren't up. When Sisko and company lost the station the first time, they put up a better fight, and it took the Dominion significantly longer to take the station than this.

5. I blew up every ship around DS9. Including the Dreadnought and the Battlecruisers. In an Exeter Class Cruiser. There were no ships left surrounding DS9. Yet, we lost? The Dominion holds the station? BULLS@#$!!!!

I could go on, but really, these are more than enough points to cause some headscratching and general wondering about what Cryptic did with a year's worth of time to develop this farce.
1. This is not reality
2. This is not reality
3. This is not reality
4. This is not reality
5. This is not reality

Also, I wish people would get off the fact that we can still visit DS9. They can't very well close the area down as people are still questing there. So think of it as a temporal shift, and you're there before the invasion, but you're bound to secrecy by the Temporal Prime Directive. Remember, in Star Trek all things are possible, because this is not reality.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus92 View Post
1. This is not reality
2. This is not reality
3. This is not reality
4. This is not reality
5. This is not reality

Also, I wish people would get off the fact that we can still visit DS9. They can't very well close the area down as people are still questing there. So think of it as a temporal shift, and you're there before the invasion, but you're bound to secrecy by the Temporal Prime Directive. Remember, in Star Trek all things are possible, because this is not reality.
The prelude to Champions Online's Vibora Bay crisis proves that it's possible for the engine to seal off instances based on the mission chain a player is engaged in, so why couldn't they have done the same here?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:28 PM.