Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Dev love?
03-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Look at doff forum vs ours lol. We need a pvp Dev nothing against hertic I know doff system is his baby.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-20-2012, 04:05 PM
I bet we could get some attention but we'd have to stop calling them out on, and ripping them a new one, every time they did something stu... less than ideal. A lot of us are our own wost enemies in that regard. We are passionate and we go too far.

No one wants to be told that they are dumb and we aren't very diplomatic when we do it. Maybe if we played nicer!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-20-2012, 04:08 PM
I've noticed that the developers of pretty much every game with PvP attached to it don't communicate with the PvP side of the community, simply because of how poorly they're treated by the players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-20-2012, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
I bet we could get some attention but we'd have to stop calling them out on, and ripping them a new one, every time they did something stu... less than ideal. A lot of us are our own wost enemies in that regard. We are passionate and we go too far.

No one wants to be told that they are dumb and we aren't very diplomatic when we do it. Maybe if we played nicer!
Hale the pve/doff crowd do rip them one. Like the chain missions not working or the doff mission that does not reward them w blue doff when they used a purple one.

We are not the only ones who rip them one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-20-2012, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radkip View Post
I've noticed that the developers of pretty much every game with PvP attached to it don't communicate with the PvP side of the community, simply because of how poorly they're treated by the players.
PvP'ers are just more combative by definition.
Less likely to sugar coat what's said.

I think it's a positive trait, if I'm honest.

Besides, every time a dev posts in here, floods of pve'ers post in here for days after (thanks dev tracker )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-20-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm just telling you what I've been told. We keep chasing them away.

Maybe I'm wrong but we seem to have several things working against us not the least of which being that we we make up a much smaller more easily dismissed subset of the game population. Developmental time and resources are clearly not being allocated in a way that's going to please any of us anytime soon. So why put up with the abuse if they aren't going to be able to give us what we need anyway?

I think a lot of the animosity that discourages them from coming around could have been avoided if they were around in the first place. That ship has sailed and we are resentful. This is ultimately self defeating. Unfortunately, if all they can promise us for the foreseeable future is more lip service then no amount of extra attention is going to help our situation because all we are going to get is more of the same. Nothing. Then we'll just keep chasing away anyone who tries to help us (help us help them as it were).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-20-2012, 05:01 PM
id have been happy if in the first place they just didnt constantly lie to us about how much they care and are going to add stuff etc etc.... it makes me sad
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-20-2012, 06:38 PM
Well the reality of it is that we make up a small percentage of the sto population, therefore very little of the budget goes to pvp. I don't blame the devs lack of involvement with us if they indeed have to do it on their time, I blame cryptic for not paying someone to handle public relations with us. Hales also right about us chasing off any help we actually DO have wander through these parts from time to time. I'm definately not innocent of this myself. I can understand their point of view too though. If I spent some of my extra time at work to try to iron out some issues and my customers kept telling me how stupid I was, I'd definately go do something I enjoy instead with my free time.

I wonder if cryptics management sometimes wishes there game wasmt such a great platform for pvp sometimes. While a small percentage, I guarantee you they don't want to lose us either. I compare it to my trade. I constantly have ppl asking me to do cash jobs on the weekend. Am I going to right them off when I could make a quick 500 bucks cash in a wknd? Probably not. Is it a pain in my *** to have to work on wknds? Definately. Would I do it if my customer was calling me an idiot? Not a chance, and thats actually getting paid to be called an idiot. To do it for free...yeah right...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-21-2012, 05:02 AM
I think my post was misunderstood. I wasnt calling them idiots or stupid. I know Jeremy shows up here now and again I even made a topic thanking him.

I hope season 6 brings something for us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-21-2012, 06:39 AM
I think at least the J-man is genuinely interested in improving the game and listening to feedback. That is good.

What is bad, and which also leads to problems when interacting with the pvp community, is the devs' lack of knowledge regarding the mechanics of the game.

Did PVPers know that a 80% cloak would be useless? Yes. But the devs didn't.
Did PVPers know that you have to be careful whether to multiply by x or (1-x) when you calculate resistances? Yes. But the devs didn't.
Did PVPers know that a +26% damage console only adds +7.5% damage for a fully specced ship at VA? Yes. But the devs didn't.

And there are more issues where I'm fairly certain that the devs don't really know how their system works. This is understandable, the guy who wrote the original code has probbaly left the company a long time ago.

This is why I think that a necessary first step to better pvp development with regards to balance requires at least one developer who learns how to PVP (not necessarily in the open as a "celebrity" in every match, maybe rather with an anonymous account) and also learn who the knowledgeable people in the community are.

There is a lot of knowledge about mechanics and balance available in the pvp community, but you need to be able to filter it. Learn to distinguish whether some new players who just reached VA are now complaining about "op this, op that" or whether all longtime PVPers agree that something is ruining the pvp fun. Also learn about the different perspectives. If QEW said "buff bops" and TSI said "buff extends", then maybe that advice is not so great even if it is coming from good players with a deep understanding of the game. I think in this regard the pvp community is more difficult to work with than the STF or Doff community where there is little to gain by pushing personal agendas to benefit only their own fleet.

Another problem that hinders interaction between PVPers and devs is what feels like a lack of a design philosophy. One day Stormshade talks about PVP in an esport context, the next day we get P2W ships. What is the design goal for pvp? How is combat supposed to be like? Is balance supposed to be achieved between single ships or for teams in a 5v5 arena? What is the general idea to deal with the differences between PVP and PVE that make some abilities work well in one setting but not the other? Is the low dependency on gear that many players mention as a good part of STO something you want to keep or is pvp gear with the associated grind the future?

It is difficult to give meaningful feedback when we don't know which aspects of a new ability/item/ship are set in stone and which can possibly be adjusted. And whether the main goal is to offer gameplay fun or make money by selling power. Just have a look at the "is this working as intended" thread - I can understand that one would not comment on things that need adjustement, because then one puts pressure on oneself to get it fixed an a reasonable amount of time; but the lack of "yes, working as intended" is really surprising when it comes to easy issues like the power console bonus being cut in half with S5.
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