Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
C-Store Item Request: Scalable Ships

I would like to see items added to the C-Store that would allow a person to gain a ship at Lieutenant, and use that ship to progress all the way up to Admiral. These ships would gain stats and slots as you level up in rank.

Who does this benefit? I feel this idea benefits multiple parties. First and foremost, it benefits the fans of a particular ship. So, for example, fans of the Nova class, or the Akira class, or the Sabre class, which have all made requests for “T5” versions of their respective ships. Secondly, this benefits role-players who don’t want to change ships every couple of days, and instead, want to have a “5 year mission” or “7 year run” as their heroes on TV did, without the disruptions in continuity that the constant stream of new ships entail. Finally, it also would provide some of the variety to PvP space battles which some people would really like to see.

Obviously, these ships couldn’t be of a +1 variety. I feel that anybody who purchased these kinds of ships would be more than willing to accept that, in order to achieve their desired outcome of using their favorite ship, or not being forced into ships they don’t enjoy for the sake of gameplay.

How would this work?

For my example, I will use the Excalibur Class.

Lieutenant
  • Hull: 12,000
  • Turn: 10 deg/sec
  • Devices: 2
  • Consoles: Eng x2, Tac x1, Sci x1
  • BO Slots: Ensign Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 2 Fore, 2Aft
  • Skins available: Excalibur, Vesper, Exeter*
*(Exeter parts available only if the Exeter has been bought on the player’s account)

Lieutenant Commander
  • Hull: 19,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x2, Sci x1, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Universal, Ensign Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 2 Fore, 2 Aft

Commander
  • Hull: 21,000
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x3, Sci x1, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Universal x4
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 2 Aft


Captain
  • Hull: 26,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x3, Sci x2, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 3 Aft

Admiral
  • Hull: 26,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices 4
  • Consoles: Eng x4, Sci x2, Tac x2
  • BO Slots: Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Universal x2
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 3 Aft

As we can see with the layouts I have proposed on the scaling Excalibur, the ship increases in effectiveness in order to counter the increased difficulty of upper level play, yet, it still respects that the pure Tier 3-5 ships (and Retrofits) are more powerful than this ship.

What this allows a player to do is have fun with ships that are virtually useless beyond the original tiers, without providing unbalance to PvP or endgame PvE. Additionally, it presents a more “realistic” approach to Starfleet vessels, in essence, the ship is “refit” as you progress, and your “skill” with the ship as the virtual years go by. By utilizing the Universal Bridge Officer slot method, it also allows for more customization in how a person plays, and makes cookie cutter builds a non-factor.

Potential C-Store Asking Price: 1200-2500 CP.

Ships that could make use of this plan:

Sabre - Rapier - Ushaan
Excalibur - Vesper
Nova - Aurora - Quasar
Akira - Oslo - Zephyr
Cheyenne - Dakota - Stargazer
Hope - Olympic - Horizon

(+1 Ship Parts useable if ships are unlocked on the player's account)


I would envision 3 templates or 3 “ships” if you will, on the C-Store. A Cruiser, An Escort and a Science vessel. Cruiser ships would be limited to Cruiser skins, Escorts limited to Escort skins, etc.

I thank you for your time.

C_Carmichael
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2 Wishing
02-13-2012, 12:28 PM
This has been on everyones wish list sence beta..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeves
This has been on everyones wish list sence beta..
I am definitely aware of that, and I think this gives some opportunities to Cryptic.

1. I think this could be a very profitable item for the C-Store. A ship, that scales with you, allows you to customize it immensely with the Universal slots and to play with your favorite lower tier ships to end game? I just see that as being something alot of people would be willing to drop money on.

2. It ends the string of "Can we have this ship as a Tier 5" requests. Everything in Tier 4 and 5 already have endgame versions, and the Nebula and Excelsior are covered as well. This covers everything else, with the exception of the Miranda / Centaur / Shi'kaar, Oberth, TOS Connie, Connie Refit and NX, which were left out for the obvious reasons of being ships that incite alot of hostility, and are far less believable at the upper levels.

3. It adds variety and customization to the game. Who doesn't want that?

My only hope is that Cryptic will consider it. If they ever did it, and either the Nova or the Excalibur were included, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-13-2012, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Carmichael View Post
C-Store Item Request: Scalable Ships

I would like to see items added to the C-Store that would allow a person to gain a ship at Lieutenant, and use that ship to progress all the way up to Admiral. These ships would gain stats and slots as you level up in rank.

Who does this benefit? I feel this idea benefits multiple parties. First and foremost, it benefits the fans of a particular ship. So, for example, fans of the Nova class, or the Akira class, or the Sabre class, which have all made requests for “T5” versions of their respective ships. Secondly, this benefits role-players who don’t want to change ships every couple of days, and instead, want to have a “5 year mission” or “7 year run” as their heroes on TV did, without the disruptions in continuity that the constant stream of new ships entail. Finally, it also would provide some of the variety to PvP space battles which some people would really like to see.

Obviously, these ships couldn’t be of a +1 variety. I feel that anybody who purchased these kinds of ships would be more than willing to accept that, in order to achieve their desired outcome of using their favorite ship, or not being forced into ships they don’t enjoy for the sake of gameplay.

How would this work?

For my example, I will use the Excalibur Class.

Lieutenant
  • Hull: 12,000
  • Turn: 10 deg/sec
  • Devices: 2
  • Consoles: Eng x2, Tac x1, Sci x1
  • BO Slots: Ensign Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 2 Fore, 2Aft
  • Skins available: Excalibur, Vesper, Exeter*
*(Exeter parts available only if the Exeter has been bought on the player’s account)

Lieutenant Commander
  • Hull: 19,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x2, Sci x1, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Universal, Ensign Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 2 Fore, 2 Aft

Commander
  • Hull: 21,000
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x3, Sci x1, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Universal x4
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 2 Aft


Captain
  • Hull: 26,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices: 4
  • Consoles: Eng x3, Sci x2, Tac x1
  • BO Slots: Lt. Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Universal x3
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 3 Aft

Admiral
  • Hull: 26,500
  • Turn: 9 deg/sec
  • Devices 4
  • Consoles: Eng x4, Sci x2, Tac x2
  • BO Slots: Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Universal x2
  • Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 3 Aft

As we can see with the layouts I have proposed on the scaling Excalibur, the ship increases in effectiveness in order to counter the increased difficulty of upper level play, yet, it still respects that the pure Tier 3-5 ships (and Retrofits) are more powerful than this ship.

What this allows a player to do is have fun with ships that are virtually useless beyond the original tiers, without providing unbalance to PvP or endgame PvE. Additionally, it presents a more “realistic” approach to Starfleet vessels, in essence, the ship is “refit” as you progress, and your “skill” with the ship as the virtual years go by. By utilizing the Universal Bridge Officer slot method, it also allows for more customization in how a person plays, and makes cookie cutter builds a non-factor.

Potential C-Store Asking Price: 1200-2500 CP.

Ships that could make use of this plan:

Sabre - Rapier - Ushaan
Excalibur - Vesper
Nova - Aurora - Quasar
Akira - Oslo - Zephyr
Cheyenne - Dakota - Stargazer
Hope - Olympic - Horizon

(+1 Ship Parts useable if ships are unlocked on the player's account)


I would envision 3 templates or 3 “ships” if you will, on the C-Store. A Cruiser, An Escort and a Science vessel. Cruiser ships would be limited to Cruiser skins, Escorts limited to Escort skins, etc.

I thank you for your time.

C_Carmichael
So if they give you a ship like this you pay for it once and really whats the point to use C-Store after that? There is no point. I get my ship and fly it all my career without spending any more $$ on C-STORE. Thats not what they want you to do. They would rather give you many more ships, extra ship slots, all kind of other bits and pieces and put it all on C-STORE. That way instead of paying 1200-2500 you will put about 10.000CPs in their pocket during your career one one charcter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-13-2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroNavigator
So if they give you a ship like this you pay for it once and really whats the point to use C-Store after that? There is no point. I get my ship and fly it all my career without spending any more $$ on C-STORE. Thats not what they want you to do. They would rather give you many more ships, extra ship slots, all kind of other bits and pieces and put it all on C-STORE. That way instead of paying 1200-2500 you will put about 10.000CPs in their pocket during your career one one charcter.
There are plenty of opportunities for continued revenue from the playerbase with a plan like this.

First and foremost, you have 3 ships. Sure, you could use the 1 ship on each of your toons, but where is the fun in that?

I know that speaking for myself, I would likely buy at least 2 of the 3. The Cruiser (For the Excalibur) and the Science (For the Nova).

That's between 2400-5000 CP right there.

Then, there are bridges for these ships. They haven't made a new bridge since the TOS interior. If they started making some new bridges, that were the scale and quality of the TOS interior, they would sell like hotcakes. First ones to make? Sabre, Nova and Excalibur! Followed on by Akira, Cheyenne and Olympic!

Also, in my plan, you still have to buy the +1 ships, if you want to use the +1 visuals on the scalable ship. That's double jackpot for Cryptic.

You could also create additional visual pieces, ship costumes, that could work with the scalable ship, and allow folks additional customization. People have been asking for this for a long time. This, coupled with a new ship that would allow them to make use of those parts for much longer, would be profitable I would imagine.

Instead of making these Cardassian Lockboxes and such, which I honestly don't understand, why aren't they going back to making the stuff people actually want and use? Bridges, Interiors, Ships and Uniforms?

It would be my hope that utilizing a plan like this would get Cryptic refocused on putting out things that people want to buy, thus increasing their revenue, and getting funds to other areas of the game, that could use extra attention, like content.

Just my thinking on this matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-13-2012, 01:50 PM
The primary issue that makes this unlikely is the Intellectual Property issue with CBS Studios... The various tweets and Dev's comment basically state that CBS Studios will not approve a Tier 1 ship design to be be competitive with a state of the art Tier 5 warship...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-13-2012, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy.Otaku
The primary issue that makes this unlikely is the Intellectual Property issue with CBS Studios... The various tweets and Dev's comment basically state that CBS Studios will not approve a Tier 1 ship design to be be competitive with a state of the art Tier 5 warship...
It depends on your definition of competitive.

Is the Tier 5 B'Rel Refit competitive with the other Vice Admiral ships, KDF or Starfleet?

I would say that it is functional, or useable. I would not say it is competitive.

The same goes for the Scalable Ship format that I proposed here.

It is functional. More so than using a Tier 1 under the current system. But are you likely to see a Scalable "Excalibur" for example, taking out a Sovereign, Excelsior, Odyssey or Galaxy?

Probably not.

Let's compare:

T5 Scalable "Cruiser"

Hull: 26,500
Turn: 9 deg/sec
Devices 4
Consoles: Eng x4, Sci x2, Tac x2
BO Slots: Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Cmdr. Universal, Lt. Universal x2 (11 abilites)
Weapon Slots: 3 Fore, 3 Aft

Now, Compare that to a Regular T5 Cruiser.

T5 Pure Cruiser

Hull: 39,000
Turn: 7 deg/sec
Devices: 4
Consoles: Eng x4, Sci x2, Tac x3 or Eng x4, Sci x3, Tac x2
BO Slots: Commander, Lt. Commander, 2 Lieutenants and an Ensign (12 abilities)
Weapon Slots: 4 Fore, 4 Aft

Difference:
-12,500 HP
+ 2 deg/sec turn rate
0 Devices
-1 Console
-1 ability
-2 weapons

As you can see, this is a disadvantage to anyone flying a scalable ship. But, that's the choice they make.

In the analysis of the differences, the ship is smaller, more manueverable, giving it a slight edge on torpedo runs, but, it lacks extra weapon ports which make dropping shields more difficult. Additionally, if you los your shields, your tin can gets blown up because it has much less in the way of HP. Also, you have a slight disability in having 1 less BO ability, and 1 less console to contribute to your ship's power.

As for CBS, I have a hard time believing that they would shoot down an idea to allow ships from the DS9/Voyager and STO eras to be upgraded to a T5 functional ship, when they allowed a 140 year old ship (B'Rel Bird of Prey) to be upgraded in such a manner, a ship I might add that is much smaller and older than any ship I listed.

Now, CBS might say something like "make it a little weaker" and that would make sense. But saying no to a plan like this for a ship from 2409, when a ship from 150 years ago already does this, makes no sense at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-15-2012, 01:17 PM
Good call, thumbs up to OP
should have been that way from beta
"they" must agree to some point; look at grab bag ships.
The Galor does just about what the OP is asking for
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-15-2012, 01:52 PM
Its missing the point.

CBS naturally wants for the older ships to be phased out since they are old ships, having a Oberth that dates back from 2280 still be around in 2404 on active combat duty is beyond odd.

Tier I ships are relics, ships design that are over 100 years old and even if you can make the argument that a hull is a hull and not necessary means new designs are better the fact is Starfleet continued with newer designs instead of just retrofitting.

I am not a fan of Excelsior refit being in service as Tier V, the only explanation is Starfleet made so many of those and it was a good enough hull to continued into the 25th century but making every ship a Excelsior would be bad.

Also there are other questions, like the "weapon slots" were I doubt you can just refit a Constitution to move from having one forward Phaser bank and a torpedo launcher to three Phaser banks, reason why Tier I ships lack a punch is not only about age but also design, the Nova class is much younger that the Constitution refit but both are Tier II since the Nova was designed for short-term planetary research missions, not the same role as the Intrepid that for deep space missions.

"Tierless" would require going in and change how a long of things work and there would still be tiers (no way a Miranda and a Intrepid should be near the same level) and using the store so you can bypass the Tier system is to me exactly that, you want to fly a relic that will have nearly the same teeth as a much newer ship and that should not happen ... STO should be a flying sandbox museum were Constitution can duck out with a D'deridex.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-15-2012, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron
Its missing the point.

CBS naturally wants for the older ships to be phased out since they are old ships, having a Oberth that dates back from 2280 still be around in 2404 on active combat duty is beyond odd.

Tier I ships are relics, ships design that are over 100 years old and even if you can make the argument that a hull is a hull and not necessary means new designs are better the fact is Starfleet continued with newer designs instead of just retrofitting.
My plan, as stated above, does not provide a scalable ship option to the ships you are referring to.

In fact, I expressly state that particular ships are left out of the loop.

As I said above:

Ships that could make use of this plan:

Sabre - Rapier - Ushaan
Excalibur - Vesper
Nova - Aurora - Quasar
Akira - Oslo - Zephyr
Cheyenne - Dakota - Stargazer
Hope - Olympic - Horizon


Specifically, the Oberth, the Miranda, the TOS Connie, the Connie Refit, the Centuar, and the NX are NOT included.

Only "modern" ships that would likely get a "refit" of this magnitude.

So, the point of the plan is to increase the amount of small ship options at the upper levels, but without increasing the amount of "old" ships.


Quote:
I am not a fan of Excelsior refit being in service as Tier V, the only explanation is Starfleet made so many of those and it was a good enough hull to continued into the 25th century but making every ship a Excelsior would be bad.
This plan doesn't make every ship an Excelsior, What it does is show that small, but new designs, like the Nova, the Excalibur, the Akira, etc. have a place in front line duty, but aren't the most powerful ships (Galaxy, Sovereign, etc) on the block.

Quote:
Also there are other questions, like the "weapon slots" were I doubt you can just refit a Constitution to move from having one forward Phaser bank and a torpedo launcher to three Phaser banks, reason why Tier I ships lack a punch is not only about age but also design, the Nova class is much younger that the Constitution refit but both are Tier II since the Nova was designed for short-term planetary research missions, not the same role as the Intrepid that for deep space missions.
First of all, we aren't refitting a Constitution.

I did however refit an Excalibur, which is a brand new design, built in the 2400s. And if you look closely at the model for the Excalibur, you'll see it has 4 beam ports foreward, as well as the photon launcher in the neck. In the rear, the ship has 2 ports. Regardless though, it's a game. If a B'Rel BoP can have 4 weapons foreward and 2 aft, it's not unreasonable to assume that an Excalibur could have 3 and 3.

Quote:
"Tierless" would require going in and change how a long of things work and there would still be tiers (no way a Miranda and a Intrepid should be near the same level) and using the store so you can bypass the Tier system is to me exactly that, you want to fly a relic that will have nearly the same teeth as a much newer ship and that should not happen ... STO should be a flying sandbox museum were Constitution can duck out with a D'deridex.
1. A Miranda wouldn't be near an Intrepid. A Nova or an Olympic would. Which is actually more plausible, considering the matchup between the Equinox and the Voyager. Sure, Equinox was outgunned in the end, but it was also heavily damaged. Regardless, an Intrepid would still outgun a "scaled" Nova, thus preserving the balance in game, while giving Nova fans a reason to rejoice and use their ships in the upper levels.

2. What ship in my proposal is a relic?

Sabre? It's newer than the Defiant and Galaxy class.
Excalibur? Built in 2400s. Newest ship available.
Nova? Same age as the Intrepid, if not slightly newer.
Akira? Newer than the Defiant.
Cheyenne? Probably the oldest I have in my proposal. Slightly older than the Galaxy.
Olympic? It was newer than the Galaxy in the alternate timeline it existed.

I don't see any relics here. Do you?

Once again, my proposal DOES NOT include the Oberth, Miranda, Connie, Connie Refit, etc etc etc

And what would need changing if we had a scaled system? We already have ships that partially scale (Shuttles) so the tech is there to make it happen. I'm not seeing your objection based on "needing to change so many things" because that's just not the case.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:44 AM.