Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok, so I am sick of getting people who have no idea what they are doing in space and espically ground stf's elites are hell if you have even one "cowboy" on your team who dosnt know what their job is....

heres a pretty simple way to fix the issue.

Setup Teirs for STF

normal STF anybody of proper level can join.

advanced(needs added) can only do this after you have won 40 normals or gotten 15-20 optionals in normal

Elite: same conditions as above but with advanced, so 40 wins or 15-20 optionals.

this forces people to not jump strait into elites but to learn to play first as they go along, Also it would likely be best if there was a time fraim you had to get them done in, say you need to get them done within 3-4 weeks or the counter restarts.(should be easy, as i can do 8-16 a night and still do warzones for easy dilithium)

its really just a matter of people who just hit level going elite because they read thats where the good rewards are, and they refuse/fail to bother reading any of the dozens of stf guides out there first, by FORCING people to play lower teirs first you force them to learn how each map is to be played and what role each type of ship should take..

im not a vet, Im not "Great" but the fact is, i read and I watch and listen when ppl tell me the best way to do XX map, only got a few weeks in and im already better then some lifers I have run across(who went lifer then never played till it went free....what's with that.....)

I just think this could help teach people to play, also would be good if there was a way to mark yourself on defense or attack or floater, ( i tend to do floater/defense because hardly anybody wants to defend....and i want the damn optional)

Just some ideas me and my friends have been talking about, stuff we have seen in other games (that work) or just happened to come up with, I really enjoy STF's when the teams decent, they suck horribly when your team sucks.

ground you NEED TO READ THE GUIDES, stick to space till you got decent ground gear......ground is not run and gun......cant count how many times i have had to tell people what a remodulator is and how to get one......almost wish I had sold them one for a million credits.....lol

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Alecto
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-17-2012, 12:56 PM
Maybe we should just get rid of whining people like you... *hands over a tissue* :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-17-2012, 01:19 PM
The worst part about PvE is PvErs. If I have even a single other PvPer on my team any of the STFs are doable and quite a bit less painful. A team full of PvPers rolls through them like a hot knife through butter. Every single PvEr I've been teamed up with for space STFs has been horrible.

I don't really blame them though, I blame Cryptic for making most of this game completely care bear with a downward difficulty curve (downward because NPCs don't gain captain and boff abilities as they gain in level). If PvE outside of STFs wasn't so pathetic, then PvErs might just know how to play STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-17-2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
The worst part about PvE is PvErs. If I have even a single other PvPer on my team any of the STFs are doable and quite a bit less painful. A team full of PvPers rolls through them like a hot knife through butter. Every single PvEr I've been teamed up with for space STFs has been horrible.

I don't really blame them though, I blame Cryptic for making most of this game completely care bear with a downward difficulty curve (downward because NPCs don't gain captain and boff abilities as they gain in level). If PvE outside of STFs wasn't so pathetic, then PvErs might just know how to play STO.
Someone really likes their generalisations. How about we make some changes to make it more accurate and less insulting to those that don't like PvP (because of the attitude of people like you primarily, but still). Here goes.

Quote:
The worst about about group content is people who don't know what they're doing and have little interest in working as a team. If in a group of people who do know what they're doing and work as a team, regardless of how they choose to play the game outside of STFs things go very smoothly and a nightmare STF becomes easy and boring due to not having to carry people through that STF.
There, wasn't difficult was it? And we even managed not to annoy a big chunk of people at the same time. All it takes is a little tact.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-17-2012, 03:37 PM
I am one of those STF noobs still. I know of the 10% strategy and am reading up on the rest as well but application of strategy is always a learning process.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-17-2012, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Someone really likes their generalisations. How about we make some changes to make it more accurate and less insulting to those that don't like PvP (because of the attitude of people like you primarily, but still). Here goes.

The worst about about group content is people who don't know what they're doing and have little interest in working as a team. If in a group of people who do know what they're doing and work as a team, regardless of how they choose to play the game outside of STFs things go very smoothly and a nightmare STF becomes easy and boring due to not having to carry people through that STF.
Your rewording is more politically correct, but not correct. Even the worst pugs know by now to, for example, always go left in Infected space, and get each generator down to 10% or lower before blowing them up. Even the lowest common denominator seems to get the steps involved in at least the space STFs. Wouldn't know about ground because I don't care for them or do them.

Teamwork isn't the issue so much as terrible completely ineffective builds, and simply embarrassing piloting. Take for example, the tactical Odyssey pilot who mixed turrets, single beams, double beams, and torpedoes in a rainbow build. Said cruiser isn't going to do damage, and is devoid of healing -- except maybe the occasional self heal. He might even be using Aux2Batt :p

The issue is two fold: that all the other PvE in the game is embarrassingly easy, and that STO is a complex game that lets players make a lot of bad choices in their builds. If you don't PvP then 99.99% of the time your build is going to suck. PvP forces players to make good builds to be effective, and premade PvP forces players to make exceptional ones. PvE doesn't have that. I don't see why you're so defensive and rude to me (edit: thanks for editing that part out!), because again it's not the fault of PvErs, but Cryptic's fault for their utter failure to design a good PvE experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Quote:
The issue is two fold: that all the other PvE in the game is embarrassingly easy, and that STO is a complex game that lets players make a lot of bad choices in their builds. If you don't PvP then 99.99% of the time your build is going to suck. PvP forces players to make good builds to be effective, and premade PvP forces players to make exceptional ones. PvE doesn't have that. I don't see why you're so defensive and rude to me (edit: thanks for editing that part out!), because again it's not the fault of PvErs, but Cryptic's fault for their utter failure to design a good PvE experience.
Those people don't suck because of the game play they prefer, they suck because they put no effort in to what they're doing.The PvE may be easy enough that they can get away with it but the very fact you see the same people with the same bad build doing absolutely nothing to correct the issue indicates the content isn't the problem (even if I agree that PvE outside of elite STFs is ridiculously easy); as with everything else it's with the guy behind the monitor. That guy may only PvE but his lack of interest in improving has nothing to do with his playstyle and everything to do with his lack of interest.

And my issue was with the dismissive tone you adopted to pretty much everyone who doesn't share your playstyle preference. If in a PuG how do you know those people that flew through the STF with ease weren't all PvEers? How do you know that the guy that sucked wasn't a crappy PvPer? Psychic?
Some of the best players I've pleyed with in game have been PvPers (most of my fleet are PvPers) but at the same time one of the best players I'd seen in a ground STF was a pure PvEer; skill has nothing to do with playstyle preference and everything to do with how much effort someone puts in to improving there game, regardless of where it is. PvP may force improvement but that doesn't preclude people wanting to improve in other parts of the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-17-2012, 04:49 PM
i SLIGHTLY agree with this, but only slightly...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-17-2012, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
the very fact you see the same people with the same bad build doing absolutely nothing to correct the issue indicates the content isn't the problem
I don't doubt that poor players who do a lot of STFs will improve in time. I don't see the same thing happening with very casual players, or at least not to as much of an extent. Reason being the difficulty curve in STO is a gently declining slope followed by a steep vertical cliff when it comes to PvP or STFs. If Cryptic designed this game half intelligently (a gradually rising difficulty curve would be intelligent, a more or less static difficulty curve would not be intelligent, but the current backwards downhill slope followed by vertical cliff is pants on head retarded) then there would be hope for the average player. As it is though, most will not be able to get over the difficulty hump, will not learn, and will decide to let their team carry them. This has a part to do with the nature of being teamed, but mostly has to do with Cryptic's inability to use sound game design principles. If those players had to do something as difficult as an STF solo, or if STO had a proper difficulty curve, they would learn sooner than later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
And my issue was with the dismissive tone you adopted to pretty much everyone who doesn't share your playstyle preference. If in a PuG how do you know those people that flew through the STF with ease weren't all PvEers? How do you know that the guy that sucked wasn't a crappy PvPer? Psychic?
No, but the PvP community is rather small, and it is not difficult to either recognize or intuit another PvPer. I've flown STFs with PvPers I would consider below average, and it's nothing like trying to fly with PvE scrubs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Some of the best players I've pleyed with in game have been PvPers (most of my fleet are PvPers) but at the same time one of the best players I'd seen in a ground STF was a pure PvEer; skill has nothing to do with playstyle preference and everything to do with how much effort someone puts in to improving there game, regardless of where it is. PvP may force improvement but that doesn't preclude people wanting to improve in other parts of the game.
That's because ground isn't the same as space.

First thing is that 99% of PvPers play space, which is going to make ground PvErs look better relatively.

Second is that ground difficulty is less pathetic than space. That's not to say that most ground NPCs aren't a breeze, but there are also some that can be more difficult, sometimes bordering on broken. Because a lot of PvE is soloed this forces players to become better.

Lastly and most importantly, it's nigh impossible to gimp your build on ground. The skill tree for ground is small enough that you can't really call it a tree, you can't pick bad abilities because everything is given to you in a kit designed to fill a specific role. You have less items on your paperdoll and it is a million times more obvious which ones are beneficial, and even the poor items tend to be serviceable.

So quite apples and oranges.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-17-2012, 05:22 PM
You know what? I give up. Clearly all PvPers are awesome and all PvEers suck so I give up. Why bother?
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