Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 301
02-20-2012, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
So . . . I'm sure this will bite me in the butt, but I'm curious. To those who say that they're an admiral, and shouldn't be running errands, and feel they should be able to just send down crew members to do these things. . . If you were to redesign the missions that you just went through, to tell the same story, but to stay in character with Admiral status. . . how would you do it?

To me, sitting in my chair on my ship, and just telling other people to do things, isn't particularly compelling gameplay. What would you have an Admiral do, in character, in this situation, that wouldn't be something like paperwork? What would an Admiral do, that would actually be fun?

Also, keep in mind that these missions have to work for anyone from Lieutenant to Admiral.

Seriously, I'm not trolling, I'm honestly just curious what you guys think would be better?


ETA: I will say, that from my perspective, it's rational that even an Admiral might be doing all of these things because of the chaos that was thrown into everything with the abandonment of DS9. Ditching DS9 and regrouping on Bajor is bound to be an organizational nightmare, and I felt that the missions were appropriate becuase everyone is needed, to do anything and everything they can to get back up and running again.
Know that my reply is tongue-in-cheek. But here goes. I think that it would be a rather inexpensive and a less visual Featured Episode if it went more like this:

This week on Star Trek Online, everyone is a Admiral visiting DS9 for peace talks. When suddenly, The 2800 reappear from the wormhole, beam through the stations shields and start massacring the crew. Forced to evacuate the station, the following diplomatic mission pop's up:
Second Wave - An Admiral's Dliemma
  • Regroup at Bajor - by extension - maintain support of a Federation member world.
  • Cede Bajor - a Federation member world - to the enemy and regroup at Risa instead. Explain it later to the Federation Council.
Reward:
Federation Council Observer - Starship Doff
Civilian who outranks your Vice Admiral.
Automatically takes a Starship Doff slot.
Can't be removed, deleted or sold by the player.
Bonus is to slow future Doff progress by 15 minutes.
Constant mini-popups questioning your command decisions.
Of Risa/Of Bajor - An Admiral's Lament
  • Character's starship must enter the Bajor/Risa System
  • Character's must 'visit the Bridge' of their starship and be seated at the desk of the Captain's Ready Room.
    • This will offer a special Doff Console upon the desk. Which offer a series of Ground-based Doff only missions not available by any other means.
    • Note: Leaving the desk (starship interior) will automatically fail these Doff missions.
  • Gather Intel on the Dominion Presence on DS9
    • Unlocked by completing no less than 45 minutes in your Captain's Ready Room interior.
    Subspace Spyworks
    • Scan Subspace Signals from DS9 using your Ready Room wall computer only.
    • Make Contact With an Ally on DS9
    Of Risa/Of Bajor - Title 15
In this example, the Admiral never need leave his Ready Room or feel the tension from a Federation world's whiny populace. But yet the player gets to experience a great deal of Federation bureaucracy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 302
02-20-2012, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by Tumerboy
So . . . I'm sure this will bite me in the butt, but I'm curious. To those who say that they're an admiral, and shouldn't be running errands, and feel they should be able to just send down crew members to do these things. . . If you were to redesign the missions that you just went through, to tell the same story, but to stay in character with Admiral status. . . how would you do it?

To me, sitting in my chair on my ship, and just telling other people to do things, isn't particularly compelling gameplay. What would you have an Admiral do, in character, in this situation, that wouldn't be something like paperwork? What would an Admiral do, that would actually be fun?

Also, keep in mind that these missions have to work for anyone from Lieutenant to Admiral.

Seriously, I'm not trolling, I'm honestly just curious what you guys think would be better?


ETA: I will say, that from my perspective, it's rational that even an Admiral might be doing all of these things because of the chaos that was thrown into everything with the abandonment of DS9. Ditching DS9 and regrouping on Bajor is bound to be an organizational nightmare, and I felt that the missions were appropriate becuase everyone is needed, to do anything and everything they can to get back up and running again.

---

Give us playable Bridge Officers. My Admiral arrives at Bajor and, as a story tool, could be helping to prepare the Fleet defense strategy while I send a BOFF down to Bajor on my behalf, who can take care of these non-Flag officer level decisions. I don't even have a problem only having access to the BOFFs ground powers. That would fix for me, anyway...I get to fly around on the Admiral lvl ship with the Admiral lvl stuff but not have my Admiral doing lieutenant level taskings during some missions.

While we're on a pseudo related subject, I'd like to be able to send my BOFFs on some sort of elite duty assignments, like my DOFFs, with appropriate rewards (and risks and time sinks).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 303
02-20-2012, 01:45 AM
Just wanted to commend Direphoenix and NeoNoir for some of the best posts on this tangent, though I also acknowledge the others making the same point (that this needs to be a game of Captains, or at least to cap out there).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 304 Idea
02-20-2012, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
So . . . I'm sure this will bite me in the butt, but I'm curious. To those who say that they're an admiral, and shouldn't be running errands, and feel they should be able to just send down crew members to do these things. . . If you were to redesign the missions that you just went through, to tell the same story, but to stay in character with Admiral status. . . how would you do it?

To me, sitting in my chair on my ship, and just telling other people to do things, isn't particularly compelling gameplay. What would you have an Admiral do, in character, in this situation, that wouldn't be something like paperwork? What would an Admiral do, that would actually be fun?

Also, keep in mind that these missions have to work for anyone from Lieutenant to Admiral.

Seriously, I'm not trolling, I'm honestly just curious what you guys think would be better?


ETA: I will say, that from my perspective, it's rational that even an Admiral might be doing all of these things because of the chaos that was thrown into everything with the abandonment of DS9. Ditching DS9 and regrouping on Bajor is bound to be an organizational nightmare, and I felt that the missions were appropriate becuase everyone is needed, to do anything and everything they can to get back up and running again.
Dear Tumerboy

I dont expect you to read this but if you did let me know what you think.

Dureing my time as a game tester i tried and plown through some extensive amount of games.
Now i do agree that "Of Bajor" had some degradeing work for Admirals.
And you asked how could you think would make it better ?

Well here is how I would think to make it better and still have some of the essence of Startrek.
Now this might require some tweaking but i do belive it would be a fun thing.
To the Point. Please read the entire thing before ditching me =)

How about you make a mission where you start out in your captains chair on ur ship.
You assign orders to your "bridge officers or Duty officers wich ever would seem technologicly easier on the game engine."
And once you done the choices of officers you get to see a small but decent cutcene about how the doff and the officer did.
and then you can proceed to the next one.
This could also have a very easy but fun "Blooper effect" if you chose a tac to do a engi sub mission.
*Tac officer go fix that holodeck AWWWWW sparkles everywhere stuff blowing up. dident go to well*
Kinda reminds me of the interactive Star Trek Movie games they had back in the years.
it dont require to much of the game engine and it could be very simple.
however the end result could be quite rewarding and fun.
and some parts of the mission could require the captain to beam down and deal with the consequenses of what happen.
and if neccery apologise for ur stupid tac that blow the holodeck up!
but it would feel the Admiral or captain is more in charge over a crew than just doing all the slave work himself.

anyways it would make the captain or admiral feel more in charge and also would suffice to shut out the entire "im a admiral doing soil samples idea"

you can aktually witness how this works by whatching various episodes of star trek through the years.

anyways there you have it. hopefully this isnot a bad idea

*Btw nothing will bite you in the butt while ur being honest and asking what ideas the cummunity has.
ignoreing the community like some i dare not mention will however bite back.
I applaud ur initiative and like that ur asking questions that are neutral.
no one can be mad at you for doing neutral inquires.
however lesson has learned uss that some inquires and asking community in a non neutral matter can turn out quite uggly when we are ignored.
So aslong as ur doing neutral questions and not makeing promises ur cannot keep.
You have nothing that will bite you
its quite the other way around. we like it when you ask neutral questions and ur not breaking promises

anyways its nice to see some fresh ppl who hasent lost the human touch yet
u got my attention so far gonna be intresting to see where you take the community suggestions later.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 305
02-20-2012, 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtEliz
however the end result could be quite rewarding and fun.
It is sure fun to sit an entire Feature Episode in your Captains Chair doing nothing but waiting for your DOffs to complete the Assignment...

Maybe add some more Paperwork to it! Actually WRITE and SIGN the Orders for the DOffs! That would be fun wouldn't it?

I have four Rank Pips and my Title is Captain... what my level says is of absolutely NO Concern to me and it shouldn't be...


My Idea is, while they already worked on the "Rear Admiral Upper Half Blargh is here" and shortened it to "Admiral Blargh is here" they shouldn't use level designation but our Titles for Communication purposes...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 306
02-20-2012, 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
So . . . I'm sure this will bite me in the butt, but I'm curious. To those who say that they're an admiral, and shouldn't be running errands, and feel they should be able to just send down crew members to do these things. . . If you were to redesign the missions that you just went through, to tell the same story, but to stay in character with Admiral status. . . how would you do it?
To be perfectly honest, I'd like the ranks to be revamped so that we're no longer admirals but captains and stick and captains (perhaps apart from those in charge of a fleet/guild). It'd make far more sense in oh so many ways and be far more believeable. That and it'd get rid of the lower rear admiral, which is almost s****** worthy.

Now we have our actual level displayed beside our rank at the top, there seems to be little need to denote our rank.

The only problem I see is that the ranking up normally goes hand in hand with getting a new ship. However, I'm sure with a slight rewording, it could be changed to simply awarding the player a medal for service and a new commission.

As for "Of Bajor" I was more then fine exploring Bajor and sorting out problems.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 307
02-20-2012, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!! SPOILER!!!!!!

So, what are you expecting/wanting today? Combat or a "Cold Comfort" type mission?
I don't particularly like the mission. It seemed to be too much of a break from the story that just started. Looking at it in terms of the long run (this is where they fit the "dailies" apparently? For this arc?) I can see it having more replayability than the first mission. But story-wise it was just a lot of busy work for me. I could only stomach doing it once with one character. It's going to be a chore with my other characters.

But 5 to 6 months from now, I'm probably going to enjoy being able to beam in and do holodeck space battles. So it's kind of a mixed bag for me. In the context of the FE, I'm not keen on this mission. In the context of replay value, it'll probably be the mission I access most.

Weird.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 308
02-20-2012, 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I don't particularly like the mission. It seemed to be too much of a break from the story that just started. Looking at it in terms of the long run (this is where they fit the "dailies" apparently? For this arc?) I can see it having more replayability than the first mission. But story-wise it was just a lot of busy work for me. I could only stomach doing it once with one character. It's going to be a chore with my other characters.

But 5 to 6 months from now, I'm probably going to enjoy being able to beam in and do holodeck space battles. So it's kind of a mixed bag for me. In the context of the FE, I'm not keen on this mission. In the context of replay value, it'll probably be the mission I access most.

Weird.
Actually, on my second and third run, I found it to last almost as long as the first one. Once you get the pattern figured out, you can run through it rather quickly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 309
02-20-2012, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
If you were to redesign the missions that you just went through, to tell the same story, but to stay in character with Admiral status. . . how would you do it?
Ok, good question...

Here's the deal, perhaps the story of how the poor Bajorans are all pouty about Starfleet and KDF personnel using Bajor as a staging ground to fight back against a Dominion invasion isn't necessarily an interesting story to tell. Here's a few ideas to just toss out there..

Start mission from the ship's interior, ready room perhaps. Have some optional log files to read through detailing how the whiny Bajorans are feeling all sad again. Have a list of a dozen or so duty office missions, maybe even a chain of them, to help comfort them and provide some sense that "we're doing something about it." For an extra added twist, take the suggestion that posted in one of these threads and make the whole string of optionals a rotating set of daily missions to give folks a reason to hang out on Bajor in a social context.

However, from there the story needs to focus on the fact the Dominion are here thinking it's war time. What do we do about it? Obviously some contact needs to be made and while punching up DS9 on the ol' speed dial and talking to the head honcho made for a mildly entertaining cut scene... I think that's what the mission should have focused on, there's the "story" that needs to be told. Perhaps go into space and fight off a few legit Jem Hadar to set up a subspace relay to break through a jamming signal. Or maybe assist a ship trying to recon the area. Yes, "it's been done a lot" but with the new tricks being implemented in the game perhaps there's a way to do an assist the ship in distress mission differently than the past.

I like balance between non-combat and ground/space combat the featured episodes. It's not easy to always get the mix right but when something is done in the mission it needs to be done with the purpose of forwarding the story, not provide an excuse to lead the player through some pretty scenery. Unless of course you're designing a foundry mission for no other reason than to show off your city scape... but this is supposedly a "featured episode"

Bottom line, the past two missions really haven't done anything for the story of the 2800. Most of the first mission was attending to diplomats, most of the second mission was attending to the Bajorans. The combat in the second one was just silly... In fact the whole premise was silly and while I respect you wanted to know how to tell that story in a better way, the problem runs deeper than the execution of the story telling.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 310
02-20-2012, 06:22 AM
Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the mission. I had a great time. I especially enjoyed the Changeling battle. That was and is a welcomed change up. And the ton of optional objectives make for great replayability. Especially when one has to repeat the mission with different teams and toons (as I do).

Not meant to be a criticism, but did anyone else feel reminded in the slightest of CS_Italy by the environment art?

Regards,
Rachel
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