I was reading the STF thread again, and made a comment, and was in effect called elitist for wanting people to have to work their way up to Elite stf access.
I have seen this alot whenever Elite STF's are mentioned you have a bunch of people rush out to say its wrong and elitist to force people to work their way up to a mission/task.
if thats true this whole game and every other MMO is elitist by its very nature, it forces you to work up your level to gain access to more missions and more/better gear, they all force you to learn as you go and prove yourself before you can move on(by earning experience), so by the definition these posters use the game itself by its very design is elitist....
Please let me ask how it would be elitist/elitism to ask that everybody for example win 15 normal STF's or 5 with optional before they could move to elite?
I say EVERYBODY even myself and others who prefer to do elites daily.
how is it wrong to ask that new players learn at least the basics before entering the top tier of pve play the game offers?
I was surprised I didnt have to do anything to do elites, i tried 1 and went "wow, i need to read up more and ask some questions" (got blown to h3ll and back that round....) so I did just that, and after reading and getting a nice person to walk me thru each map once, I was able to contribute every time AND not ruin the round for others by doing something colossally stupid...
many dont seem to catch the clue that they need to treat elite differently then normal and normal differently then a basic borg encouter(they dont read the optionals at all)
please somebody explain to me how its not elitist for these people to demand that they not have to do what other players have had to do to be successful in the game.
please somebody explain to me how its not elitist of these players to insist that others ideas to fix the situation are invalid/wrong and even elitist and evil because it would force everybody to do the same thing(again, i really think if the system was implemented it should be for everybody....not just "noobs")
Please, most of us just want a way to fix the problem thats pretty blatant if you do elite stf's, we dont want to penalize new players, we (enlarge at least) dont want to keep them out of stf's, we just want to find a way to filter at least most of the people who are not ready to do elites yet(and may never be) out, not to punish them, because lets be honest, for most people being a useless lump thats the brunt of angery pm/team chats isnt really fun for normal people(greifers are a dif story....but I really dont think there are many of them in this case, I really think its just people who arent ready for elite and need seasoning before they "run with the big dogs" as it where.
we where all there once, some of us just pick things up and learn faster then others...dosnt mean we cant all get there in the end and have a blast both along the way and when we get there.
There is always the dingaling that wants to wander off and spawn the cubes on elite in his own....then dies and they wander towards the grp and he also ignores the prbes........not really sure which viable strat that is......
peeps will be angry because they feel they are entitled to do whatver and however they want....to some extent maybe so. But to ruin for others is not fair...lets call a spade a spade......their collective inexperience ruin it for others and we hide it in the guise of..they have a right to be there which can ruin it for others.
Lets look at it from the other side of the coin.....When you load up for an elite stf you rightfully expect the players to be competant...is it fair to ruin the game for those who are because the other player has a right to be there and is answering the call of the GREED because more powerful loot can drop.
i , for one, am tired of those who claim they have a right to be there, and in doing so ruin it for everyone else.
We all know to whom this applies......so no need to get defensive the rest of you all......the ones who are able to do easy mode and try elite only to get a beat down...I am more speaking of the morons who clutter the elite stf's with dumb and inexperienced nonsense.....
What you need in an elite stf
1. communication i.e. we all know what to do yes or no? pls answer......pls talk in chat
2. Know your role and play it with some level of competancy. That also means have the gear set up right and be ready to go.
3. More communication.....GUYS!! I need help...too many probes or I lagged (hehe yeah right)
4. Perhaps optionally read the forums and know what is different about this stf on elite as compared to easy.
6. This applies to those who are vets to elite stfs.......be a little forgiving........stop with the insults. I am so tired of folks being rude and foul mouthed because the stf goes sour. Unless of course it is obvious and blatant...then tear em a new hole.....
As a side note I have been in so many stf's and sometimes it is amusing to watch a grp trying to kill a cube in elite that takes 25 mins or Donatra that takes 15 mins......something is not being done right....
The thing that so many people are missing is quite simple.
Elite is for the Elite. Yes it is Elitist, that's why it's called Elite. Why ever try to argue that?
I'm sick of going into Elite STFs and getting bundled with inexperienced players who "did ok" in normal STFs and think that qualifies them to try for Elite.
I'm sorry, but no. Just because you "did ok" in normal does not, by any means, make you ready for Elite. At the very least you must have a build that is able to Survive all the normal STFs without being killed to even think of trying Elite.
On top of that, tactics on Elite are very different than on Normal. What most people do on Normal simply doesn't work on Elite (Cure Space as a prime example), so you should also be thinking of reading up on the forums and learning the tactics that do work.
Since the F2P horde began reaching max level, I'm no longer seeing the point of trying to solo queue STFs anymore. I do them all with fleet teams now, teams I can trust.
To be fair, when I respond in that thread, in the camp that would probably describe you as elitist, I kind of already got side-tracked by the vitriol about 'noobs' being spewed by the supporters in your camp. And my experiences with people responding less than gracefully when there turns out to be someone clueless on the team, after they mess things up...
In and of itself it's not unreasonable to say people should do each STF a few times before its elite variant unlocks. That won't stop people from flying into Elites on ships plastered in green and blue mk X equipment, though. Which will then be the next point of order in the thread in question. One suggestion I saw was requiring people to already own either the Omega Force, M.A.C.O. or Honor Guard set before being allowed into elite STFs. That's more than a few times, and it means people are pretty much kitted out already. (A lot of people will get their third set item, shout "Done!" and never run an STF again.) And then there's still the issue that the tactics that work in normal STFs don't work in the elite ones. So it's not actually training anyone.
Add to that the misbehaviour I see from 'veterans' in STFs when all too often things don't go completely according to their wishes, and that there is already an option for people to put together their own teams, and I'm not in much of a state of mind to try to reason with people who come in raging and try to find some common ground.
Bottom line, there is no way to enforce automatically, through the gameclient, things like people communicating, having read or watched tutorials, cooperating, knowing their role, etc... It just can't. It never will. You can impose all kinds of draconian measures and lock out people who would do okay, and still let in idiots who rode the coattails of others long enough to meet the gear and 'experience' requirements. The only way to put together a good team is to do it yourself. If you want to just play a quick match, and you select the random option, then there's risks attached, and you just have to live with those.
I personally think someone just needs to actually win a normal at least once to unlock the elite version of it. at least then they know the steps. As for the optionals...there optional so i dont think they need to be done to make it to elite. I know the frustration when it comes to people doing the elite missions. Personally myself I dont do elite yet cus I lack good gear to be much use.
Doing normals isn't really going to train you up for doing elites, tactics can be completely different and often you don't have the fire-power to plough through them like normals and can easily fail.
Just give up and don't bother doing elites unless you're prepared to be disappointed, I know for a fact I'll end up with one or two people with lvl 8 green equipment hoping for you to carry them through.. now with f2p, even more so... Deal with it, it's normal to any game without any prerequisites for doing hard modes.
My advice, don't pug unless you can laugh it off when you epically fail, also please direct those without a clue to the website with the elite tactics and methodology.
I would like to see tiers for STF's look like this
Newb, normal, elite...
To progress from one tiers to the next you need to accomplish a certain set of tasks.
how about this
current normal becomes easy, create normal and advanced teirs (shouldnt be to hard) each teir unlocked by for example 15 wins or 5 with optionals, this is per account, that way people can ease their way into higher level play.
they could also make it so you get drop items to buy X gear in easy, xgear drops in normal with low chance of an XI drop, advance gives you high chance of XI and very low chance of XII, and all of them have EDC's BUT as you move up, optional gets you more EDC's per teir.
Easy w/o optional: 1 edc 440 dilith
Easy with optional: 1:5 chance at 2edc and a random roll chance that people can need/greed on salvage(blue) 880dilith
Normal w/o: 1 edc 440dilith
Normal with: 2 edc and a 1:5 chance at a 3rd and random chance roll for need/greed on salvage(blue) and/or possible borg tech drop to roll on 880dilith
Advanced w/o: 1 edc 440dilith
Advanced With: 3 EDC and a 2:5 chance of another EDC(need/greed roll), low chance of proto type salvage or borg tech, higher chance of blue borg tech drop in addition to the edc(possibly also have a blue salvage tag along with the borg tech drop for need/greed randomly) 1100dilith
Elite w/o: 2 edc 1100 dilith
Elite with: 3 edc and a 2:5 chance at 2nd chip, also prototype borg salvage and/or prototype tech should drop. and be rolled on 1440 dilith
another good thing would be a "most valuable" bonus for up to 3 people make it a random salvage/tech drop(just an idea)
thats not all about dps, if your healing/debuffing alot your helping.
another idea/thought some of us have had is if they also added an optional to the optional, if you can get the optional done in XX time(well below the rated time) a bonus would be good, and could even be an incentive for people to drop a teir or 2 and train people, more dliltium or higher chance of a tech drop or salvage...that kinda thing.
again I am very much NOT anti-noob, Im very much anti Idiot.
also I dont agree that you MUST be in mk XI or X prpl gear, I have seen people run who where in white X gear that held their own(weapon wise) by the time you can do stf's you should have your breen gear, and thats a decent starter set.
the idea that you need a full omega/maco set to do stf's is idiotic, i do better in my breen set then full omega or maco....(thats sad i would expect with how hard a full set is to get it would blow away even the borg gear)
best combo I have found is the borg console+deflector+engine+ maco or omega shield, (yes i have full mkX on maco and omega...infact im close to recycling them as the borg gear is better for my uses...and my mk xii maco and omega shields are plenty shield wise....
just a thought but if they did the above, it would actually make people getting full sets of maco/omega easier and would entice people to do lower level stuff longer even after they unlock the next teir, because they would have a higher chance at a full set with set bonus.