Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-19-2012, 05:42 PM
Bored? Awesome game. A company that understood the trek IP and didn't want to sell you mystery boxes to show how much they loath you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-19-2012, 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira-sensei View Post
Agreed.

Interesting: "It seems we're stuck with what we have" - This is a phrase dropped by the Devs, e.g. Tumerboy, more than once^^
Tumerboy also has recently added 'we feel it's good enough' to his stable of catchphrases.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-19-2012, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav750k View Post
This is on my list of wants as well. The custom shuttles using the trophy system is a brilliant idea. I could see it working for crew uniforms as well... giving us a list of premade canon and cryptic uniforms to set for the cew.
I like the way you think as well with the uniforms for crew as well. what really grinds my gears is there are so many of us out there with good ideas and cryptic basically ignores them, and all the do is make excuses. have a small dev team? hire more people you idots, people with good ideas and knowledge of trek, im only 16 and i bet i know more about star trek then most of their team. server problems? add more. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY IF SOMEONE COMPLAINS THEN NO ITS NOT f***ING GOOD ENOUGH! you know why? Because the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-19-2012, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkfat View Post
You've just revived a very old debate, where Dstahl called me a troll for posting this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40d-SpClc5Q

That game is now over a decade old, although these sets were made mid-2000s with a ugc tool 8000x more powerful than the Foundry.
good vid, ancient graphics but still better than what we have now design-wise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-19-2012, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synther View Post
Let them cry a river and get over it. The fact is they've been outright lying to us about the whole thing since the very beginning. The real problem wih Cryptic is that they would rather make excuses as to why they can do something rather than spend that extra hour or two and do it right. They're really rather pathetic.
I... wow... you are pretty right though, lots of excuses and excusers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-20-2012, 12:51 PM
A couple of general responses, directed at no one in particular.

1) Ideas are not a problem. We devs have lots of ideas too, 99% of which never see the light of day. Ideas are cheap, and easy. We come up with 100 ideas for any one we end up implementing. And while players ideas are truly heard and appreciated (I don't know how else to convince you guys of this) many of your ideas have already been suggested Dev side, and for every 100 ideas we have, you guys have 10,000 more. Even if we had a ton of employees, we couldn't possibly keep up. In addition, many of those ideas contradict themselves when taken as a whole. While some players want things one way, some players want it another.

2) Hire more people. Well, I'm an environment artist, I have a small say in WHO we hire on the env side, but no say in whether we hire or not. That is true of pretty much everyone else you see on the forums. We may also want a bigger team, but we don't get it just because we want it. People far above me decide whether we get more openings or not. Then, even if we have openings, those take months to fill. It's not like we are up and running with 30 more people the next day. At best we get one or two new people every few months.

3) "Good enough." Yes, I used those words. You guys seem to have a very different interpretation of their meaning than I do. In an artist's brain, nothing is ever good enough. Nothing is finished, we always see things to improve, we always see things to fix, we always envision new things to add on. Production realities demand that at some point we say, "Good Enough." Not as a defeat, but as a cut off point in which to put something out to you, the players. If we never said "Good Enough," STO would still be in development. We would be Duke Nukem Forever.

"Good Enough" is not a defeatist attitude. "Good Enough" does not preclude making things better later. It is a general assessment of the situation, and deciding that it will work for the intended purpose, and that while more time would be awesome, it is not necessarily worth spending extra time on this given thing. This happens constantly, everywhere. This, "Good Enough" call, is made at hundreds, or thousands of points in EVERY GAME YOU PLAY. It happens in any product you buy. This is not a bad thing, this is a production reality.

I understand that you guys don't believe that some of the things we do are in fact, "good enough," and I am happy to hear you raise those issues as you see them. This does not make it ok to bash the dev team for the work they have done (or not done). This does not make abusive posts, swearing, calling out devs, or any of that acceptable. You are absolutely allowed to be angry about something. You are absolutely allowed to express said anger in a calm, rational, reasonable manner. Please do, we WANT you to do so. That's why we have a forum in the first place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-20-2012, 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Devon View Post
I like the way you think as well with the uniforms for crew as well. what really grinds my gears is there are so many of us out there with good ideas and cryptic basically ignores them, and all the do is make excuses. have a small dev team? hire more people you idots, people with good ideas and knowledge of trek, im only 16 and i bet i know more about star trek then most of their team. server problems? add more. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY IF SOMEONE COMPLAINS THEN NO ITS NOT f***ING GOOD ENOUGH! you know why? Because the CUSTOMER is ALWAYS RIGHT!
Money doesn't grow on trees. People don't work for free you know, and it isn't like Cryptic can just print more money to hire people.

Also the "Customer is always right" is a terrible excuse. A generalization here, but customers are also some of the dumbest people around. If we're always right, I shudder to imagine what things would look like...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-20-2012, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
A couple of general responses, directed at no one in particular.

1) Ideas are not a problem. We devs have lots of ideas too, 99% of which never see the light of day. Ideas are cheap, and easy. We come up with 100 ideas for any one we end up implementing. And while players ideas are truly heard and appreciated (I don't know how else to convince you guys of this) many of your ideas have already been suggested Dev side, and for every 100 ideas we have, you guys have 10,000 more. Even if we had a ton of employees, we couldn't possibly keep up. In addition, many of those ideas contradict themselves when taken as a whole. While some players want things one way, some players want it another.

2) Hire more people. Well, I'm an environment artist, I have a small say in WHO we hire on the env side, but no say in whether we hire or not. That is true of pretty much everyone else you see on the forums. We may also want a bigger team, but we don't get it just because we want it. People far above me decide whether we get more openings or not. Then, even if we have openings, those take months to fill. It's not like we are up and running with 30 more people the next day. At best we get one or two new people every few months.

3) "Good enough." Yes, I used those words. You guys seem to have a very different interpretation of their meaning than I do. In an artist's brain, nothing is ever good enough. Nothing is finished, we always see things to improve, we always see things to fix, we always envision new things to add on. Production realities demand that at some point we say, "Good Enough." Not as a defeat, but as a cut off point in which to put something out to you, the players. If we never said "Good Enough," STO would still be in development. We would be Duke Nukem Forever.

"Good Enough" is not a defeatist attitude. "Good Enough" does not preclude making things better later. It is a general assessment of the situation, and deciding that it will work for the intended purpose, and that while more time would be awesome, it is not necessarily worth spending extra time on this given thing. This happens constantly, everywhere. This, "Good Enough" call, is made at hundreds, or thousands of points in EVERY GAME YOU PLAY. It happens in any product you buy. This is not a bad thing, this is a production reality.

I understand that you guys don't believe that some of the things we do are in fact, "good enough," and I am happy to hear you raise those issues as you see them. This does not make it ok to bash the dev team for the work they have done (or not done). This does not make abusive posts, swearing, calling out devs, or any of that acceptable. You are absolutely allowed to be angry about something. You are absolutely allowed to express said anger in a calm, rational, reasonable manner. Please do, we WANT you to do so. That's why we have a forum in the first place.
What a gracious answer.

I'd like to casually point out that I've played MMO's and games where dev-interaction just didn't happen. It could always be a lot lot worse people.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29 Heres hoping
02-20-2012, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
A couple of general responses, directed at no one in particular.

1) Ideas are not a problem. We devs have lots of ideas too, 99% of which never see the light of day. Ideas are cheap, and easy. We come up with 100 ideas for any one we end up implementing. And while players ideas are truly heard and appreciated (I don't know how else to convince you guys of this) many of your ideas have already been suggested Dev side, and for every 100 ideas we have, you guys have 10,000 more. Even if we had a ton of employees, we couldn't possibly keep up. In addition, many of those ideas contradict themselves when taken as a whole. While some players want things one way, some players want it another.

2) Hire more people. Well, I'm an environment artist, I have a small say in WHO we hire on the env side, but no say in whether we hire or not. That is true of pretty much everyone else you see on the forums. We may also want a bigger team, but we don't get it just because we want it. People far above me decide whether we get more openings or not. Then, even if we have openings, those take months to fill. It's not like we are up and running with 30 more people the next day. At best we get one or two new people every few months.

3) "Good enough." Yes, I used those words. You guys seem to have a very different interpretation of their meaning than I do. In an artist's brain, nothing is ever good enough. Nothing is finished, we always see things to improve, we always see things to fix, we always envision new things to add on. Production realities demand that at some point we say, "Good Enough." Not as a defeat, but as a cut off point in which to put something out to you, the players. If we never said "Good Enough," STO would still be in development. We would be Duke Nukem Forever.

"Good Enough" is not a defeatist attitude. "Good Enough" does not preclude making things better later. It is a general assessment of the situation, and deciding that it will work for the intended purpose, and that while more time would be awesome, it is not necessarily worth spending extra time on this given thing. This happens constantly, everywhere. This, "Good Enough" call, is made at hundreds, or thousands of points in EVERY GAME YOU PLAY. It happens in any product you buy. This is not a bad thing, this is a production reality.

I understand that you guys don't believe that some of the things we do are in fact, "good enough," and I am happy to hear you raise those issues as you see them. This does not make it ok to bash the dev team for the work they have done (or not done). This does not make abusive posts, swearing, calling out devs, or any of that acceptable. You are absolutely allowed to be angry about something. You are absolutely allowed to express said anger in a calm, rational, reasonable manner. Please do, we WANT you to do so. That's why we have a forum in the first place.
Well as I said when I pm'd u we appreciate the work you've done, as a whole you've done good work, its just the things are are still messed up or could be added that aren't we feel frustrated at, we know you guys work hard and all your ideas or ours can't be implemented, but the ones that can and aren't are stupid. so if you guys really feel something could fit in a game, fight for it, that's what we would and continue to do, its not about what your bosses want, its really about what the players want, i know you know this, so don't be afraid to speak against them. what really needs to happen is your bosses need to listen to all of us, players and devs.If you have our backs then we will have yours. I hope that your boses will realize that they have to listen to the devs and players more, and that our ideas, like usin a system similar to the trophy shelve system for shuttlebays, will in the future be used. Good Luck
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-20-2012, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Money doesn't grow on trees. People don't work for free you know, and it isn't like Cryptic can just print more money to hire people.

Also the "Customer is always right" is a terrible excuse. A generalization here, but customers are also some of the dumbest people around. If we're always right, I shudder to imagine what things would look like...
Maybe so,but it seems company's used to value customer opinion alot more
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