Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-21-2012, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
I think the trouble is a lot of players want to fly it at endgame and the Ambassador is, at best, a T4 ship.
its more advanced then an Excelsior.
Lt. Commander
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# 32
02-21-2012, 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by forresto View Post
The way I see it, the Ambassador class while not in a time of "war" , was built in a time it had to be prepared for one or at the very least, heavy combat.
There was nothing special about the C era that required it to have more combat-ready ships then any other era. The A, B, D, and E were also built in a time where they needed to be prepared for war, but that's not the same as being involved in a war. There's no indication the Romulans were any more aggressive at that time or needed to be more feared at the point then any other point in Federation history.

To my mind the Excelsior was a more combat orientated ship. The Ambassador seemed more like the Federation returning to its exploration roots, to me.
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# 33
02-21-2012, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
There was nothing special about the C era that required it to have more combat-ready ships then any other era. The A, B, D, and E were also built in a time where they needed to be prepared for war, but that's not the same as being involved in a war. There's no indication the Romulans were any more aggressive at that time or needed to be more feared at the point then any other point in Federation history.

To my mind the Excelsior was a more combat orientated ship. The Ambassador seemed more like the Federation returning to its exploration roots, to me.
There's actually some production support for this.

When they were making the Excelsior for Star Trek III, they asked themselves about what lessens Starfleet would have learned over the life cycle of the Constitution. One of the lessons they decided on was that the extended pylons and heavily exposed neck of the Constitution made the craft vulnerable to targeted attacks that could disable the craft or even blow it in two.

So when designing the Excelsior, they went with a thicker and shorter neck, and shorter, bent pylons bringing the nacelles in closer to the ship, where targeted strikes would be harder. At the same time, the Excelsior was the first Starfleet ship to have full 360x360 Phaser targeting coverage.

When designing the Ambassador (after the Galaxy had already been designed), they decided that the Galaxy was a return to the "less tactical, more practical" era of the Constitution, and that the intervening ship, the Ambassador, should show the gradual move back.

As such, when the Ambassador was designed, they basically took the Excelsior and the Galaxy, put them a certain distance apart, and drew lines from point to point on each ship (saucer edge to saucer edge, stern to stern, neck to neck, etc..), and used the midpoints of those lines to plan the layout of the Ambassador.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-21-2012, 05:19 PM
they could make it an excelsior skin. they have run out of station combinations because the ships in game so far have crummy, overloaded with a single type, station setups. when they add more canon ships in game they have no choice but to give inferior by canon standard ships superior station setups. i think we are close to needing a complete station setup overhaul on all the ships.

like all the stock tier 5 ships, their ensign station and commander station should be swapped. that way a sovereign would have a COM tactical station, a LTC, LT, and ENS engineering stations and a LT science station. that would be more accurate to the canon ship's performance, and make for more interesting builds and gameplay.
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# 35
02-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
I understand how you feel but even in TOS the Feds and Klinks spent time together and competed for resources on various planets and space stations. If the Feds saw a Klingon vessel orbiting a space station they knew to be prepared for possible trouble but they didn't just open fire on them like we do in the game when we see them sitting idle at a station.
True. I guess maybe its do to the fact The Ambassador class is #2 on all time fav list I'm fighting harder for it. I have come to terms that the TOS connie will never be more then a T1 ship


Quote:
Originally Posted by kalic89
If your on about the Romulans then there has been a Cold war with them since the days of the Enterprise series. That would mean that every ship was built in a time of war all Enterprises A through to E
I only seen 3 eps from that show. The two mirrors ones and the ending, I have never liked that show nor do I plan to watch it so I have no info on that show at all really.
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# 36
02-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartzilla2007 View Post
its more advanced then an Excelsior.
And the rest of that post you quoted explained why I think the Excelsior is still better. Just because something is technologically more advanced doesn't mean it's more reliable. A Chevy Volt is more technologically advanced than almost anything on the road, but most cars would still be able to drive circles around it. The Ambassador could have been the victim of its own advancements and was seen as a lemon by Starfleet.
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# 37
02-21-2012, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross82

I only seen 3 eps from that show. The two mirrors ones and the ending, I have never liked that show nor do I plan to watch it so I have no info on that show at all really.
Geez, no wonder you didn't like it. You watched the 3 worst episodes of the entire series.
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# 38
02-21-2012, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
I think the trouble is a lot of players want to fly it at endgame and the Ambassador is, at best, a T4 ship. The Excelsior, I believe, gets away with it because it was the workhorse of the Federation for many years and was one of those things where the design is proven regardless of the situation (similar to how the AK-47 is still considered the standard for reliability despite it being half a century old). The Ambassador feels like a test platform that was never meant for large scale deployment and was more for testing new stuff.
There were Ambassadors in service up until at least Wolf 359, probably even later. There were also two varients of the ship: the Enterprise-C and the Zhukov varient. The former would fit in as a T3.5, the latter as a T5.

So to answer your question: NO! A skin is NOT acceptable. For reasons already mentioned such as size and the fact that this was the first "warship" Starfleet commissioned, versus the Galaxy being an explorer. So as far as firepower and BOff layout, it should have a more tactical slant. It was designed to keep the Klingons at bay, because despite the events of STVI, there were still hostilities between the UFP and the Empire. True peace didn't occur until after the E-C's sacrifice.

I've never understood why this ship is the fracking redheaded step-child of the Star Trek universe. All the other Enterprises got their own ships including the NX which irritated a lot people, but of course they're "having a hard time" getting this one in.
Lt. Commander
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# 39
02-21-2012, 06:00 PM
The ambassador should be a t4 alternative, like the excelsior is a t3 alternative. It should be smaller then a galaxy and turn better, with lower hull and shield caps. I would go as far as giving her an extra sci ensign like the venture class as well. She should have the Enterprise C configuration, the refit version we saw in the show, as well as perhaps a new 2409 skin as well... with the possibiility of these only on a t5 variant. For specail power how about a 'temporal displacement' console that enables you to jump back to the nearest respawn point when you're at or below 25% hull strenght... maybe leaving behind a quatum singularity where the ship was?

Console should probably be only on the t5 though the t4 might have more natural damage resistance, as well she was built during the era of the first cardassian war that o'brien talked about at times.
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# 40
02-21-2012, 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
And the rest of that post you quoted explained why I think the Excelsior is still better. Just because something is technologically more advanced doesn't mean it's more reliable. A Chevy Volt is more technologically advanced than almost anything on the road, but most cars would still be able to drive circles around it. The Ambassador could have been the victim of its own advancements and was seen as a lemon by Starfleet.
what an absurd analogy. i'll never understand why so many people think the ambassador and galaxy were these toothless failures. the ambassador was without peer for the first 30 years of service, its an enormous ship, 2 million square meters larger then the excelsior that proceeded it. it was also the class that pioneered phaser arrays, it likely had 10 times the firepower of any other ball turret equipped starfleet ship at it's launch.

the capture and reverse engineering of the enterprise C is likely why the romulans were able to design and build the enormous d'deridex. the romulans didn't even want to chance an encounter with starfleet until they had fleets of d'deridex's in service. they saw how tough the 15 year old enterprise C was in 2344, they wanted to be more then ready for any advances starfleet made since then.

the vorcha was designed with a lot of starfleet shared technology after the ent C's sacrifice and the peace treaty. its likely starfleet shared current off the shelf tech, like that found on the ambassador, not the cutting edge stuff that was being designed for the galaxy class.
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