Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofftillman View Post
I am in my 40's and I can assure you that in the 70's you were still expected to be polite in commercial discourse. You couldn't usually get away with the overt rudeness you see today. The article is correct and unfortunately it's not just online (although it is worse there) it's been seeping into culture for at least 20 years.

"The customer is always right" may be a useful business policy but it's a poison in our culture.
I'm pretty sure sexism and rudeness existed in the 1970s. Granted I was still very very young back then. But I'm pretty sure those things did happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-22-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
There's nothing wrong with the customer always being right. People just get confused about to what extent they're the customer and whether they're being courted as the customer.

If you don't feel like you're being courted as a customer based on a company's actions, you're probably not being courted... and you're probably not right anymore.

You have to be the customer to be "always right" and however much you've spent, your customer status is always up for renegotiation.
I disagree, sometimes the customer is not right but several decades of "The customer is always right" has convinced many people that they are and that they can be as rude as they want and still get their way. I routinely see people flat out stealing from restaurants by eating their meals then once finished deciding they didn't and getting it for free. I have seen people in line at the market making the cashier cry and It's much worse online. Where on this site people accuse the employees of cryptic of being thieves, of purposely doing things to hurt the people of playing this game etc...

Then we have the article posted here. All that women did was make a simply and reasonable suggestion and people were saying things to her that in an earlier decade would have led to a beating.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I'm pretty sure sexism and rudeness existed in the 1970s. Granted I was still very very young back then. But I'm pretty sure those things did happen.
Yes sexism and rudeness existed but if you as a customer said things people routinely say now to an employee they would have been tossed out on the street if they were lucky. Sexism usually reared it's ugly head by being patronizing and rudeness while it existed was not usually tolerated in general commercial discourse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-22-2012, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
no, thats just because of your avatar. :p
Was that why??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-22-2012, 12:54 PM
As an example, if you can find old magazines, read letters to them from dissatisfied customers. They were usually a lot less rude while still addressing the problem the customer had.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-22-2012, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofftillman View Post
I disagree, sometimes the customer is not right but several decades of "The customer is always right" has convinced many people that they are and that they can be as rude as they want and still get their way. I routinely see people flat out stealing from restaurants by eating their meals then once finished deciding they didn't and getting it for free. I have seen people in line at the market making the cashier cry and It's much worse online. Where on this site people accuse the employees of cryptic of being thieves, of purposely doing things to hurt the people of playing this game etc...

Then we have the article posted here. All that women did was make a simply and reasonable suggestion and people were saying things to her that in an earlier decade would have led to a beating.
Well, I just believe in "the customer is always right" tempered with the idea that you're not necessarily the customer and you're not the only customer. A good business will adapt to suit the aggregate customer.

The product may not be targeted at you. On the other hand, the product may not be targeted at the right people or enough people.

Generally, I think the ideal for a business is to create a quality product of integrity that adheres to a mission statement and then to adapt that product to suit enough customers.

My folks were in business for a number of years with a deli. One of the big mistakes they made was sometimes deviating from their mission to try to work in specialty coffee or ice cream when the sandwiches they made were always the central focus and what their resources were tied up in. My dad milled his own grain for the bread and they used quality meats and offered vegetarian options. That was the heart of their focus and was the profitable, customer-generating aspect of their operation. Going after ice cream sales was outside their focus and ate up resources without noticeable return.

I talked to my dad this past weekend and he said, I think wisely, that they shouldn't have chased the ice cream sales but should have leveraged their restaurant exclusivity clause within the shopping center to allow somebody else to do ice cream, a separate business focused on that that they could partner with.

On the flipside, the guy who bought my parents' business lowered the quality of the meats and added beer, both of which detracted from the central focus. That guy put in a giant theater projector screen and had jugglers and acrobats outside. I'm not looking to debate the merits of beer as I like a nice beer but most of his business was fairly conservative family types and it cost him more customers than he got because he misjudged the business' central appeal. The acrobats got injured. The television cost money and detracted from the place as a meeting spot for business people.

It's not that there's something wrong with a sportsbar or with acrobats. It just didn't have a lot of integrity with the areas the restaurant was successful at and so it diminished the value of his investment by gutting the things that worked. I think beer COULD HAVE worked but it would have required a beer that appealed to foodies. I suggested, constantly, that IF he did beer, he should look at how businesses like Moe's do it. That means neon signs are out. That means artisan microbrews in a cooler with suggested pairings on the menu not bud light in the window.

There is generally a way to do almost anything but it needs to integrate with what works.

As a business, you have to know who you are and what you do and build any expansions to that organically and consistent with your institutional values. Those values shape who your customers are. And as long as your adhere to those values, having your finger on the pulse of your aggregate customer is ideal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-22-2012, 01:17 PM
As stated previously (and with more eloquence) the lowest common denominator of any customer base always seems to fall into this "me me me" entitlement with the "I want it NOW" of the microwave generation. It's not restricted to gamers (Who taught them to act this way? Their peers and those they look up to.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Here's one to try on for size. Think about how folks dissatisfied with their customer service would have responded to a female sales rep in 1952 or 1962 or 1972. I mean, if we're using a wayback machine, let's use it.

Some of the offensive language would have been different, but the sexism and offensiveness would have been ramped up a bit due to the way society was back then.

Food for thought.
Trust me, there are still a bunch of old people whose brains are stuck in the 50s and think that a woman can't help them the same as a man, "No, honey, I need to talk to a MAN; you wouldn't understand."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-22-2012, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geofftillman View Post
As an example, if you can find old magazines, read letters to them from dissatisfied customers. They were usually a lot less rude while still addressing the problem the customer had.
Uh ... are you suggesting the magazines did not receive profanity laden rants by dissatisfied readers back then?

They did. They just didn't publish them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-22-2012, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Uh ... are you suggesting the magazines did not receive profanity laden rants by dissatisfied readers back then?

They did. They just didn't publish them.
Which suggests a solution. If some one posts a rude attack against employees of cryptic or othe posters, ban them instead of tolerating it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-22-2012, 01:42 PM
remember we are talking about a very tiny group of people who have no manners, but the internet is global and can provide everybody with any type of information instantly with little to no filter.

someone says something rude in america and within minutes the entire planet has access to what was said.

in the past this would have had to be brought to people by newspapers, or tv and a few people having a mindless rant would not have made the news. its hardly makes the news today. this story was picked up by a gaming website which again would not have existed 30 or 40 years ago.

i cant say if there are more people who are rude and insulting than there were in the past, but these people have always been around. every decade has its share of mindless fools. we are no different, we are just exposed to them more.
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