Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
02-22-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by temprus View Post
Start learning those metaphors, Cryptic people have explained several times that the unskippable ones are here to stay because they are doing stuff in the background of the mission that has to happen, hence why they are unskippable.
Yes I remember that, I meant they should take the time to create new cut scene tech that would eliminate that issue. And here's what I think about them not wanting to take the time to do so...

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Mirror-Master

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
02-22-2012, 08:05 PM
There are far worse forums for negativity and hate than the STO forums. In my experience this place is actually fairly tame most of the time.

It's perfectly fine to dislike or post your feelings about things you might not like, it's another thing when it turns into completely nonsensical rage for the sake of rage posting. Even a constructive post can be ruined by certain forms of language.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
02-22-2012, 10:07 PM
Maybe people feel more free to express themselves, thinking that noone will know who they are (after all we did provide a Credit Card number, and name on the Card); maybe they should lock such a person out of everything except a C-Store (whatever that game's version is) and that person would have to pay a fine before receiving access. I love when something devious pops up in my head
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
02-22-2012, 10:09 PM
I just want new missions.

Even if it's just super basic stuff, small one-shots that give a snippet of galactic life. I don't need new tech and fancy cut-scenes in every mission. It's cool and it'd be great eventually but seriously. I just want new missions.

I'd rather run a dozen 15-30 minute missions that have me repairing consoles and rescuing injured crew on a freighter, investigating a murder on a planet, stopping a Klingon invasion of Sherman's Planet, etc than wait for a once every 6 months injection of content because it has to be epic an full of new tech.

Right now the game has enough tech that if I had access to it I could (once learned on it as they say) create a minimum of 4 solid one-shot missions in a month's time. More likely twice that. Some of my best rated Foundry missions were ones I threw together in under 5 hours from start to finish writing to testing. They're nothing special but they're something to do.

Yes we have the Foundry but there's something about the content coming from Cryptic that makes it feel more "official" and more appealing to everyone. I dig my Foundry missions, they aren't amazing but I have a full-time job and a wife and friends and live in a large city with lots to do. I don't want to spend 20 hours of my free time making a really awesome mission. My missions target people looking for about 15-30 min of fun with some nice in-jokes for Trek fans and a remotely original feel to them.

Why can't there be more Cryptic stuff like this? Why does it take months to get anything done for content? I'm not saying you guys don't work hard or aren't busy, but us on the outside look at the closed door and go "Wth are they doin in there? There's plenty of art assets and tech already in their toolsets, they could be throwing together random fun little missions while stories are okay'd by CBS and new tech for them is being made and new art assets are being made."

Hell, sell Dev time on the C-Store as a purchasable item if it's a matter of budgets and crap. Set it up like Kickstarter or something. I'd pay 30 bucks toward a dev's time to develop an Ambassador class ship. Just like kickstarter have different donation tiers:

400 C-Points: Get the console that comes with the Ambassador-Class (No Ship)

800 C-Points: Unlock the Ambassador-Class on ONE Federation Character (Without Console)

1200 C-Points: Unlock the Ambassador-Class on ALL Federation Characters (With Console)

This could be done with nearly everything you develop...

Or just Pre-Sell things you know you're allowed to make and give to players and whichever ones are generating the most sales or generate the most within a certain period get resources thrown at them.

Just seems like a whole lotta Upper-Management juggling and greed get in the way of letting you guys get your stuff done and making us happy. Which seems counter-intuitive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
02-23-2012, 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
While I agree that early feedback lead to major changes in the game, as it does, all the time, I don't think rudeness (or hate speech, or threats, or derogatory comments, etc.) helped with that at all.
This, so much this. I love great feedback, even if its "negative", but I hate it when people are jerks about it. I hate it when people are dismissive of others opinions because they differ, or worse, attack them for daring to offer information that flies in the face of their arguments. I hate the overuse of hyperbole and cynicism on gaming forums. It sometimes makes me wonder why kind of mal-adjusted people perpetually near flame forums about how terrible/unethical a company is, for years on end, all the while supporting the game. I asked someone doing this on the WoW forums once why he would support such a "terrible and unethical" company, man, did that set him off.

The STO crowd overall is pretty good, compared to other MMO forums, but I still, even here, see people try to legitimize their douchebaggery by wrapping it in "legitimate feedback". In my way of thinking if you can't communicate like a civilized human being, you've already de-legitimized your feedback.

What worries me is people can't see the difference between: "I think interiors in STO are way too large and would love to see them scaled down some" and "The money grabbing STO devs can't make a decent sized interior and then lie to us about accommodating cameras and and its totally unacceptable that they aren't being jolted with shock collars when they try to leave the building because they should be fixing it all right NOW!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
02-23-2012, 01:33 AM
I guess jerkers gunna jerk?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
02-23-2012, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
While I agree that early feedback lead to major changes in the game, as it does, all the time, I don't think rudeness (or hate speech, or threats, or derogatory comments, etc.) helped with that at all.
Rudeness is not hate speech or threats.

I don't think I've been specific enough. So I apologize for any confusion. In the article they cite a post of someone calling the Bioware employee a very very derogatory word for a part of the female anatomy. On any forum of communication that type of post is an extreme violation of the rules. And gets moderated without question.

That's not the rudeness I'm talking about.

The rudeness I'm talking about is customers sternly disagreeing or criticizing the company. In this case, Bioware.

I'm saying the article cited that extreme example to get people to read the article. But that type of post isn't relevant to the topic because that kind of post is a no-brainer violation of whatever agreement was made to join the forum of discussion.

What I'm talking about is the rest of the criticism.

It can be as rude as "Soandso is an idiot! Here's why!"

That's rude. And negative. But in the case of when they criticized this game's prevalence of combat or "pew-pew" and how un-trek-like it was ... the rude criticism was dead-on correct.

People were not nice in their critique. But they were right.

And that can affect change.

I'm NOT talking about people making threats or profanity laced diatribes.

I'm talking about people just plain old raging and ranting.

Which I can cite quite a few examples of that kind of rude, negative feedback being right and affecting change in this very game.

No c-words. No f-bombs. But definitely not "nice" in the tone or content of what was written. That make more sense? I'm not at all defending the extreme rules violations that are cited in the article. I'm defending the rest of the stuff. Where people call Bioware stupid or dumb or disconnected with their playerbase if they think the employee's idea is good for their game. There's a ton of rude feedback on that topic that contains just general rudeness with no extreme language or threats.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
02-23-2012, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Gamespot.com posted a very interesting article, I believe people should read about the vicious verbal attack at the hands of gamers.
Warning: May contain strong language.
"The Dangers of Gamer Entitlement "
Props to StormShade for posting this on Twitter.
---
I can't help but see the relevance towards our own community here considering events that happened not so long ago.
funny thing, gamers have no rights. gamers dont own anything, even those games you have lying around on a shelf you can pull out and play has a license that only you can play it, that modifying it and such can bring the usual, yada yada yada... the rest of that legal rubbish ending with the chance of being convicted in court if it goes too far.

you have a right to express your opinion or concern, even bring ideas forward so long as it gets a strong support from the community in order to effect change for the company in question to adjust, modify or add content. However, nothing more then this is allowed as the game belongs to that company.

as for the abuse, probably directed at her for a sexist attack simply because she thinks herslf more important, well gamespot didnt think so at the time and pulled it down, i think this is just from the backlash of comments that had no way of being expressed until recently. still its very silly and over the top.

i sometimes make a comment on this forum that earn perma infraction points, and honestly i dont give a damn because im allowed to make my comment like anyone else is and i shouldnt be punished as a result especially if it furthers a point. still there are times where its deserved and othertimes where it is not (and the mods should pick each complaint apart properly, to determine if its genuine or just out of pure spite because someone likes reporting me or someone else because they spoke bad of cryptic), again gamers have no rights, which is proven everytime.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
02-23-2012, 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
*snip*
Ok, in your example, "So and so is an idiot, and here's why. . ." I would argue that the "here's why" bit is the important part. "So and so is an idiot" is entirely unnecessary, and is in fact, counterproductive to getting your point across. "So and So" is going to read that, and dismiss your whole post, rather than paying attention to what could be a very astute argument.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
02-23-2012, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
Ok, in your example, "So and so is an idiot, and here's why. . ." I would argue that the "here's why" bit is the important part. "So and so is an idiot" is entirely unnecessary, and is in fact, counterproductive to getting your point across. "So and So" is going to read that, and dismiss your whole post, rather than paying attention to what could be a very astute argument.
I agree that the here's why part is important.

But this is where we get into the meat of the article's topic. The "entitlement" part. I feel there's a lot of back and forth that's being dismissed. The "here's why" part is prone to get ignored because of the "soandso is an idiot" part.

A lot of posters in this thread have pointed out that rudeness and the like and the kind of "entitlement" behavior is not specific to the video gaming industry. And it's not. You spend time working with customer service reps in a variety of other industries and you hear their horror stories.

You can see it in the comic strip "Our Valued Customers" or the "Clients From Hell" feed. They're both very entertaining outlets for bad customer experiences. But you know, if you work a call center, you know you're going to get yelled at by really rude people. Not all the time. But it is going to happen. Disregarding or lashing back, we all know, isn't the protocol those businesses endorse you know?

So that definitely raises concerns to me if "entitlement" is being viewed in the way it's being presented in the article.

I fully agree that threats are a no-no.

And yeah, the feedback of "X is dumb!" is really thin and not very useful (though if thousands of your customers keep posting X is dumb, but do not have the ability to articulate why, the stacking data of X is dumb is still of some value to the company ... they just now have to find out why so many people think X is dumb).

But the thing I feel is bad about the article is it's suggesting X is Dumb, Here's why X is Dumb! ... is entitlement. And that's bad for business.
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