Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluegrassGeek View Post
Uh, thats what Elite means. Enemies are extremely overpowered and difficult to kill. It doesn't imply anything else. This is from the days of DOOM and DOOM 2. The enemies were just plain harder. Superior tactics doesn't really come into it.
Elite mode - on ground combat - is not working as intended and isn't okay. It's not okay for NPC's to be able to one shot an entire away team (all wearing good gear) with no way to avoid a wipe. I don't mind it's not a major priority to fix, but it's definitely borked (less so that before the combat revamp at least!).

It's issue acknowledge by the team. They've fixed a bunch of mobs, but even some of the story missions/ FE's (I get it a lot with Romulans) don't scale up properly on Elite and break especially when you are below ~ level 35. I think it's the combination of level scaling and difficulty modes that makes it hard to fix (normally the difficulty scaling works well IMO - much better than in a lot of RPG).

Someone on the team said if there were problems still they'd consider implimenting an option to allow us to set ground difficulty separately. That would be awesome I think, as space continues to work really well and I can imagine that would be less work that trying to tweak all mobs perfectly to work on ground at different player levels and difficulty modes. That way I could play Space on Elite and ground on Advanced and mostly it would be fine.

The reference to Doom doesn't really make sense to me as in Nightmare mode it was all about tactics, you had to dodge attacks, or you'd die - but it was totally winnable with skill and practice (and great fun). I don't think that applies here as twitch reactions don't really help with IMBA MMO mobs (and it's not fun) - all players can do is run at them again and hope they don't randomly happen to crit so high they wipe the team as soon as you get in range (and keep trying again until you run out of med kits and are too damaged to continue).

To be fair, it's not like it happens all the time, but even when it happens in 1 in 10 missions where you have to call the whole thing off and restart the mission on a lower difficulty is enough to trigger a feeling of "to hell with that option" and not turn it back on again (even if you feel regular combat isn't quite challenging as it could be).

I'm still happy we've got the feature though. It would be nice for it to get looked at eventually, but being able to set ground and space difficulty modes separately would be a nice tradeoff in the mean time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-25-2012, 06:40 PM
Sometimes in explorer missions on elite you simply can't win. Depending on how the mobs spawn. I have had two swordmasters, munition officer, officer and targ hunter in one group. I tried every tactic I could think of and couldn't kill them.

I also had a random group spawn with a Captain. He had mini gun and photon grenades. The photon grenades were hitting for 700 to 900 damage. One grenade wiped out my whole team. He could spray the mini gun and kill my whole team. After the ground 2.0 my bridge officers die all the time.

I heard they made some changes to elite recently. I quit playing elite because it made it way to repetitious and would take longer. I couldn't tell a difference in space except on boss ships like Borg Cubes and D'Deridexes. Where they could one shot you with torpedoes and such.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-25-2012, 07:39 PM
I agree that the scaling of the mobs in explore and Foundry missions to elite is not right.

Commmander and Captain groups in the Foundry are absolute hell on elite. If you place a Commander 3 or Commander 4 group, someone playing on elite is in for a very hard fight (it's beatable but tough). It's just one thing to keep in mind as a Foundry author. You need to scale down the enemies a little bit and have only a Commander 1 or Commander 2, and a Lieutenant 3 group, unless the player has friendly NPCs helping them.

It would be nice if that were addressed, frankly, but it doesn't get any attention.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-25-2012, 11:47 PM
It's nice to see that people who have the same feelings about Elite are willing to share their thoughts and support the original post.

No Nagorak, I wasn't around back then, and by the way you describe it I'm quite glad about it too.

Actually, someone made a good point about the Explore missions on Elite too... I also had the same problem with the Klingon mobs with the Swordmasters. My team setup now allows me to beat the Swordmaster group whilst only getting killed 1-3 times.

I still feel that space needs to be looked at too, like I said in my original post. When you've been slugging it out with an enemy battleship for 10 minutes, Firing at Will at all it's High Yield destructable torpedos and holding off on your Jam Sensors until it tractor beams you, and it manages to kill you with only 1% health or whatever, it's annoying. But then as you're going back in at full impulse to take advantage of it's weakened state, it zooms off at Warp 50 back to it's starting possition and you have to watch helplessly as it's hull jumps back up to 100%, and then as you approach it back at it's starting point you open fire and watch it launch a spread of 25 or so torpedos at you which, despite activating all your power to shield/strucural integrity/brace for impact abilities and having full shields and hull, you're destroyed instantely. And you know, by the time you get back to it again, it's shields will be back up to full strength too... it's just so GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-26-2012, 03:01 AM
Haven't played Second Wave with a commander or captain, so I can't speak to that. On Lieutenant and VA levels, tho, Elite was a blast. Best way to play Second Wave and Of Bajor, imho. I love defending DS9 so much, I wish I could skip straight to the good stuff (loved the diplomacy the first few times through, but it's a bit tedious now), or at the very least skip the conference table cutscenes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-26-2012, 04:20 AM
I just want to add a thank you to everyone who's posted in this thread so far. Depite (I feel) having a valid complaint, I was expecting alot of this: "I find Elite easy, so you must just suck" or "If you don't like it then don't play it". Both of which is wrong and actually not at all helpful. But every reply thus far has been mature, considered and thoughtful. So I would like to applaud and thank each of you. *Fwends!*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-26-2012, 06:40 AM
I've been playing on advanced for as long as I can remember, I tired elite but again the ground experience is awful, not even a chance in hell at times. Advanced gives a bit more challenge but dosen't take forever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-26-2012, 06:46 AM
I really haven't heard many people say elite was easy and tell others to L2P. The one shots are really unpopular. I think the scaling would be right if the didn't scale up kinetic damage like photon grenades and torpedoes. Also attacks like bolt spray which knocks out shields and does damage. One bolt on elite in superior gear will take out your shields and knock you down to 1% health, if it doesn't kill you in one shot.

The two ground groups I talked about in my previous post. All had bolt spray the Klingons spawned in a flat map with no cover for line of sight. Swordmasters got shotguns after the ground 2.0 update but it's to strong. Which can one shot you to on a crit.

The captain group spawned with a few bolt spraying lieutenants. It was in a tunnel map I tried line of sight with them but my bridge officers died so fast they were of no use. I couldn't place them any where because of the grenades and spray. They would die within seconds even though I could kill most of the group solo. They changed the way roll worked so it's useless now. It waits till after your attack is over and you end up rolling a second later. Roll should cancel your attack and roll instantly. It's useless a second after you need it.

I think the perfect scaling for elite would be for bolt spray and torpedoes to stay the same. Because on normal bolt spray will knock your shields down to 40% and take like 50% of your health. Torpedoes don't scale right either they hit for 30k or more, on elite. Everyone I have seen talk about scaling on elite thinks about everything is right but bolt spray and torpedoes.

They could increase NPC normal attacks more and reduce their hull and shields a little more. I think it would be a lot more fun. We asked for bolt spray to be fixed for months. They said they would fix it with the ground combat update but they didn't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-26-2012, 08:51 AM
I have been missioning with Engineer on my Odessy on Elite this past week.

The PvE Mobs are definately tougher, but I have yet to have my ship destroyed. Some close calls with very low hull, but I guess I have a good enough equipment and power mix.

On the ground it has been a different story.

Definately more fun on elite even if it does get a little frustrating at times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Elite gameplay:

Call 4 friends over to join the mission. Doesn't matter how simple the episode is, just bring them in.

Spend 2 hours in a Battle of Endor type scenario fighting massive enemy fleets and deadly combat requiring strategy, tactics and teamwork.

Elite = full of WIN!
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