Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Ferengi Doff System Idea
02-23-2012, 08:56 AM
Somebody in another thread came up with a model for introducing the Ferengi's into STO. I disagreed with it, and came up with something else-A Ferengi Doff system. Please read about it below and tell me what you think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vironica View Post
How much would you pay for a Ferrengi ship with Ferrengi crew? Then you could have 5000 foundry missions all revolving around Ferrengi pirates (you) robbing both the Federation and Klingons in various ways and selling for profit. Level up without touching 'I'm a federation captain' quests basically.

I'd personally enjoy missions where you disable a ship, board it, rob it, then leave and meet up with a 'fence' to offload your loot. I want to be a rebel in space working only for myself.
Your idea of a Ferengi pirate doesn't square well with the typical Ferengi businessman we see in Star-Trek. Ferengi's don't usually rob others with direct force. They do it by forming a business partnership in which they get most of the profits or by buying good really cheaply and selling them at exorbitant prices. I'd rather see a major expansion of the Doff system that brings in a lot more economic and trade related missions.

Instead of just specific trade deals, your Ferengi doff system would allow you to create Ferengi companies within certain sectors that, depending on the demand and supply of certain goods, would generate losses or profits for you as a captain. You could also sign business contracts with rebels and governments alike which required you to supply them with a certain type of good every so often-every 2 or 3 days you'd have to supply 30 medical supplies, as an example).

Once you got to a certain level in investing and trading, you'd have the ability to start building up a fleet of casino ships. You could also form trade conglomerates.

Cryptic wouldn't have to be too ambitious with this. They could start out by creating 50 fake businessmen within the doff system (about 4 or 5 businessmen per sector) , each of which would have a trade predisposition towards you and the other businessmen. You, as a Ferengi businessman/woman, would have a trade predisposition scaling anywhere from 1 to 10 with any of the factions. This reputation would in turn govern what kind of contracts you can sign with the parties in that sector-ranging from extreme losses to extreme profits.

This is how it would work. You'd start out trading and signing contracts in only sector. That is, you'd only be allowed to work in one sector as a fledgling ferengi businessman. You would then have to establish some trust between yourself and potential clients. This would require helping a minifaction to finalize a trade contact, or alternatively, you would help them send a small shipment of goods to another sector. Once you've established some trust, you can start signing supply contracts with the minifaction. For example, for a 3 day period, we will pay you to supply us with x number of provisions. Once you've brought up your level of trust with that minifaction by responsibly fulfilling the terms of the supply contract, you can sign onto more lucrative supply contracts.

Enter the courier system. The Ferengi Business Alliance would give you 10 courier doffs to start with when you begin in a system. You would use these to complete these supply runs for local bussinessmen/women or the local government. A common courier would ensure that the supplies were delivered but there would be a greater chance of them getting stolen. In general, the rarer the courier, the less the chances are that the supplies will be stolen or lost. Rarer couriers will also let you deliver supplies from point A to point B in much less time than a common courier would. Supply run contracts would typically award you a base level sum of money if you use common couriers. But, if you use rarer couriers, the time to delivery will go down, and you will get payed more (bonus payment).

At level 2 trust, with the minifaction you can start a level 1 company, the smallest and least profitable of the 4 levels of companies one can form. At this point you are contacted by a member of the Ferenginar Business Alliance (call it what you want). They supply you with the doffs you need to start you first company, and they'll cover the start-up cost. However, there's a catch. A percentage of the profits you make will go toward this business alliance. The doffs you get will be 3 managers, 10 workers, 5 stock holders, 10 lobbyists, and 2 investors. Investors can be either stock holders or managers and give a greater chance of getting higher profits, but the risk of disaster is greater since they are greedy. Each company will require 3 managers, 10 workers, and 5 stock holders to be run. Companies will be run much like a doff mission on steroids.

For each company mission, which could last for weeks at a time, you'll have to supply the required doffs. Companies will be kept pretty simple. In the entire 10 sectors you will be dealing with, there will only be about 40 supplies until Cryptic can build this up more. Let's also assume that each of these sectors are so far way from each other that the demand/supply of 1 good in one sector isn't going to effect the demand supply of another good in another sector. Within the first sector you are dealing with, you will be dealing with a mini economy of about 4-5 goods. The level 1 company (or mega doff mission) you begin will be dedicated to producing x amount of x good.

However, you will have the ability to send lobbyists on bribery/favor missions to the sector government and to the Ferengi business alliance. The success of your lobbyists on a bribery doff mission will result in a small reduction in the percentage of after profit taxes owed to the sector government and to Fereginar.

There will be a variety of variables that affect the profitability of your company during your the 1-2 week existence of your company. Profitability will be measured as follows: the result of your 1-2 company endeavor will be large losses, medium losses, small losses, break even, small profits, medium profits, or large profits. At end of each tax cycle, You will owe 60% of any revenue you make to the Fereginar Business alliance; let's call that the Ferengi tax. You will also owe 10% of your revenue to the sector government; call that a sector tax. After that, the rest is yours for the taking. Since you have common managers and workers, your operating costs will probably equal your profits. You will have to cover the operating costs yourself.

Eventually you'll reach a level 4 trust level with the first minifaction you deal with. Once this happens, new options became available to you. You can then form trade partnerships with 4 or 5 businessmen who own companies in the sector (buying some of their company stock). You also unlock the ability to go to a new sector to begin supply contracts with them. Other factors affecting your profits will be x amount of uprisings, y amount of pirate attacks, z amount of fraud, and A amount of natural disasters. Cryptic can arrange these like this. Within your 1-2 company mission, there is a certain chance that any of these events can happen. Once an event happens, it will affect your short term operating costs in real time. And, you will be able to see how it is currently affecting your operating costs. That being said, you will have a chance to correct for one of these crisis once they happen. If a pirate steals a chunk of money, you will be offered a mission in which you must destroy the fleeing pirates. If you don't capture their ships and take back your money with a certain amount of time, the money you lost is gone. The same could be said of uprisings, natural disasters, and fraud. When an uprising happens, you are offered a mission in which you must help the local sector authorities quell the uprising. Natural disasters would be a bit more complicated. Maybe introduce a materials system from which you could use materials to rebuild your factory/company. Fraud would also be tricky. I'm thinking that any of these events would temporarily take money out of your daily operating costs bank. If somebody has embezzled money from your company (say an investor or manager), you could create a spy doff mission that has a chance of discovering who it was. If you are successful in discovering who it was, the manager or manager is fined, you recover your operating cost losses, and the manger or investor is jailed by the local authorities for a short period. Once that period expires, that investor or manager becomes your prisoner who you can then sell to the orions, klingons, or iconians.
Lt. Commander
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# 2 Part 2 of Ferengi DOFF System
02-23-2012, 08:58 AM
Let me just say a few things about revenue and profits. Revenue will be (daily operating costs + gains) - daily losses. Losses will come from the potential crisis that I've already mentioned. Profits will be revenue - (Fereginar tax and local sector tax). As I've said in the above paragraph, you will have the chance to recover your operating costs losses from missions. You will also have the added chance of getting more profits from, for example, credits and loot you take from pirates, fines you exact from embezzlers, etc.

Each company would also have a certain amount of stocks. Since the Ferengi Business Alliance paid for company by paying the start-up cost providing the doffs, they automatically own most of the stock (let's say 80% owned by them and 20% owned by you). However, once you made enough profits, you can buy back the stock of your company from the alliance. Once you have bought up a certain percentage of the company stock (let's say 50%), you will have the ability to put more workers and managers to work in your company. Let's assume that the value of the stocks isn't really affected by external factors. The value of the stocks will only go up if your company begins to be more profitable. Although your company stocks can never have a negative value, negative profits will make their value go down.

To keep things simple, we'll assume that there is a monopoly in every industry (every good), with a total of 4-5 companies, equaling the same number of goods. The value of each good will be displayed on a chart within your doff menu. The value of each good will fluctuate by a randomly calculated amount every second based on the demand and supply for it. Cryptic could also have the real time value of each good affected by the uprisings, pirate attacks, fraud, and natural disaster). The Demand and supply will also appear next to the value of each good. How do we tie this into the end of the big company mission? Well, like I said before, at the end of a 1-2 week period, your company will have produced X amount of goods (with common workers, you will produce the least, with green rarity workers you'll produce a moderate amount, with blue workers quite a bit, and with purple workers, a huge amount). The Rarity of managers will only affect daily operating costs, and the rarity of workers will also affect the daily operating costs.

Once you've produced the goods at the end of the period, you have two choices. Either sell them at the current market price, or wait until the supply goes down, demand goes up, and the price of the good on the market increases. Waiting could be risky, though. You must renew the contract on your existing company in order to produce x amount of goods again in 1-2 weeks. Plus, there are tax cycles. Every 3 weeks, you will be taxed by the local authorities and the Fereginar business alliance no matter what you do. Therefore you have an incentive to renew your company doff mission as soon as possible so as to keep earning profits that will go towards paying taxes.

Anyways, that's just an idea for how to do a ferengi doff system. Like I said, you would have about 4 different levels of company sizes. Level 2 companies which allow you to add 5 managers, 10 workers, and 5 stock holders. The amount of stock your company can issue would also vary depending on the level of the company. At level 2, you could issue twice as much as your original stocks at greater value. At level 3, you can issue 3 times as much as level 1, and at level 4, you can issue 4 times as much stock as you can at level 1. While you are in the first sector, you would be barred from being able to have a level 3 or 4 company. Level 3 companies wouldn't be unlocked until you have increased your sphere of influence from 1 sector to 4 or 5 sectors. Level 4 companies wouldn't be unlocked until you had expanded to all 10 sectors. To expand your trade empire from 1 sector to the next, you must own at least 2 or 3 companies your starting sector.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-23-2012, 09:09 AM
I understand where you're going with that, and why, but...

Just no.

"Ferengi Day-Traders Online - Now with expanded business contracts and an interstellar tax structure!"

Do not want.

What I would like to see is a Ferengi species option for every faction, including new ones. Thus allowing Ferengi "access to every market". Along with perhaps some way to eventually obtain Ferengi starships, that would scratch the itch at least a little bit.

I would also say that the Trade Commendation tiers ought to provide the same benefits that Diplomatic and Marauding do... access to sectors not normally available and additional Transwarp locations. That way you could choose to rank up Trade instead.

Might as well make the same suggestion for Espionage, to keep the Romulans happy.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-23-2012, 09:13 AM
I casually mentioned Ferengi pirates mainly because I just watched a episode of Enterprise last night where they put the crew to sleep simply to rob the ship down to the conn chair lol. I do however realize this was before the Federation and many decades of Ferengi coming into their own as businessmen.

Watching that episode though got me to thinking, what if I created a Ferengi captain, had all Ferengi BOFFS, and could create Ferengi foundry missions. The only thing that ruins it is the fact I'm driving a Starfleet ship. If and when the C Store releases a Ferrengi ship you can trust and believe I and I'm sure others will release Foundry missions based on the player playing a independent Ferengi doing what Ferengis do and side tracking any of the 'you are starfleet' normal missions.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 5
02-23-2012, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
I understand where you're going with that, and why, but...

Just no.

"Ferengi Day-Traders Online - Now with expanded business contracts and an interstellar tax structure!"

Do not want.

What I would like to see is a Ferengi species option for every faction, including new ones. Thus allowing Ferengi "access to every market". Along with perhaps some way to eventually obtain Ferengi starships, that would scratch the itch at least a little bit.

I would also say that the Trade Commendation tiers ought to provide the same benefits that Diplomatic and Marauding do... access to sectors not normally available and additional Transwarp locations. That way you could choose to rank up Trade instead.

Might as well make the same suggestion for Espionage, to keep the Romulans happy.
The trade system I'm proposing doesn't have to be exclusively for Ferengi's. Anybody would be able to participate in it. Also, the whole doff system is optional, so if you don't want it, don't participate in it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-23-2012, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vironica View Post
I casually mentioned Ferengi pirates mainly because I just watched a episode of Enterprise last night where they put the crew to sleep simply to rob the ship down to the conn chair lol. I do however realize this was before the Federation and many decades of Ferengi coming into their own as businessmen.

Watching that episode though got me to thinking, what if I created a Ferengi captain, had all Ferengi BOFFS, and could create Ferengi foundry missions. The only thing that ruins it is the fact I'm driving a Starfleet ship. If and when the C Store releases a Ferrengi ship you can trust and believe I and I'm sure others will release Foundry missions based on the player playing a independent Ferengi doing what Ferengis do and side tracking any of the 'you are starfleet' normal missions.
I like the idea of the pirate missions akin to the Enterprise episode you mention. I also agree with you that a lot of people would probably release tons of Ferengi-specific ferengi missions if we had access to ferengi ships. However we know how Cryptic is. They would never release a faction without at least some storyline missions created by Cryptic, so I doubt they would just release the ships by themselves.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-24-2012, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
The trade system I'm proposing doesn't have to be exclusively for Ferengi's. Anybody would be able to participate in it. Also, the whole doff system is optional, so if you don't want it, don't participate in it.
Let me explain why I am (currently) opposed to this notion, as well as that of a civilian Trader class.

If Cryptic works on this, then they aren't working on something else. Many, many things which I think are more important, even if I don't personally care about those features in some cases.

In that sense, the rest of us don't get the opt-out you're saying we have. We would lose a feature the game needs because a minority want a system where they can play Ferengi as shady businessmen.

STO needs a better crafting system. It needs to expand how Commendation categories are used throughout the game. PvP needs work. The KDF need more stuff overall. The Foundry needs more functionality and art. We need a larger variety of missions that a majority of players will play. There's a strong desire to see a Romulan faction added someday. Fleets need more functionality. More endgame. Long-standing bugs need fixed once and for all.

STO does not need Sim-Business at this time. In my opinion. Fortunately, I have a strong feeling that Cryptic will feel the same way about it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-25-2012, 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Let me explain why I am (currently) opposed to this notion, as well as that of a civilian Trader class.

If Cryptic works on this, then they aren't working on something else. Many, many things which I think are more important, even if I don't personally care about those features in some cases.

In that sense, the rest of us don't get the opt-out you're saying we have. We would lose a feature the game needs because a minority want a system where they can play Ferengi as shady businessmen.

STO needs a better crafting system. It needs to expand how Commendation categories are used throughout the game. PvP needs work. The KDF need more stuff overall. The Foundry needs more functionality and art. We need a larger variety of missions that a majority of players will play. There's a strong desire to see a Romulan faction added someday. Fleets need more functionality. More endgame. Long-standing bugs need fixed once and for all.

STO does not need Sim-Business at this time. In my opinion. Fortunately, I have a strong feeling that Cryptic will feel the same way about it.
Yeah, agreed. Well, if STO does well, I do want them to implement some sort of trader doff system. Doesn't hurt to brainstorm some ideas aobut it .
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