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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
There is a growing movement here in the forums that believes there's not enough justification for the Staryline of STO having the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon Empire at war.

I agree.

However, instead of getting a thrown-together and half-hearted end to the war, I believe that there should instead be a concerted effort to expand the justifications for it, as well as an effort to make it a central focus through all levels of play, from the first ten levels to the very last.

No war is ever fought for just one reason, there's always a combination of factors that lead to one nation taking up arms against another. From economic disputes and diplomatic faux pas, to botched intelligence ops and secret weapons programs. From old wounds being reopened by modern issues to deep-seated and distinct ideological disagreements.

These are the seeds of our malcontent. The problem is, these seeds are not present in the backstory we have.

When children go to school, they are taught (shamefully) of singular causes for armed conflicts of the past. that the American Revolution was only about "freedom" or that WWI was caused by a single assassination.. When in truth these conflicts were caused by dozens of disagreements and injustices, on all sides.

I see the back story we've gotten, the Path to 2409, to be just like the simplified classes of the young. It is a brief, condensed view of the events leading up to the War.

As such, I believe that the content of this game, the missions themselves, should give us the backstory of the real causes for the War.

Instead of asking for a half-hearted solution to a problem caused by half-hearted measures, let us argue, in fact, let us demand that instead we get a better game, not a worse one, that we get more content, not less, that we get a war that makes sense, not a peace that makes little to none.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-23-2012, 05:23 PM
I think wars are fought for one reason...resources. I think fleshing out the story on the Klingon side to answer why the Empire is at war would be a good starting point. Plus it would give the Klings some much needed story content.

BTW - did I mention that I'm still not able to sit at the conference table? Just incase anyone forgot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-23-2012, 05:28 PM
I think expanding it has possibilities but I don't think all out war is something the dev team could implement in the next few years without some really crazy stuff like divvying up the Romulans between the two sides.

Wars have a price. Prices are not fun for a lot of people.

That said, I really like where you go with this idea. My favorite DS9 episodes are probably the ones with the augments. My favorite Voyager episode is the one where Seven goes paranoid and pits Chakotay and Janeway against one another with some immaculate arguments for conspiracies and longform plots that the Voyager writers could have realistically built on.

I like connecting the dots. There's always a human story. There are always conflicting accounts. There is always more than one story.

I would love to play with this.

There are a lot of things I've tinkered with along these lines. One is my Picard conspiracy theory about his brain condition. Another is that the Wesley we see in Nemesis was the first Undine infiltrator. I think this LINE of thinking could lead people to take the lore more seriously and engage people cerebrally without necessarily calling for crazy sets or even necessarily mountains of dialogue.

I'd love scattered missions that provide the "hidden picture" beneath the Path to 2409 and maybe clues that drop from enemies that can be read and assembled to uncover secrets, out Undine, link people to Iconians, implicate traitors, and really delve into the secret dealings of people in power and how those have shaped the war.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-23-2012, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
There is a growing movement here in the forums that believes there's not enough justification for the Staryline of STO having the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon Empire at war.

I agree.

However, instead of getting a thrown-together and half-hearted end to the war, I believe that there should instead be a concerted effort to expand the justifications for it, as well as an effort to make it a central focus through all levels of play, from the first ten levels to the very last.

No war is ever fought for just one reason, there's always a combination of factors that lead to one nation taking up arms against another. From economic disputes and diplomatic faux pas, to botched intelligence ops and secret weapons programs. From old wounds being reopened by modern issues to deep-seated and distinct ideological disagreements.

These are the seeds of our malcontent. The problem is, these seeds are not present in the backstory we have.

When children go to school, they are taught (shamefully) of singular causes for armed conflicts of the past. that the American Revolution was only about "freedom" or that WWI was caused by a single assassination.. When in truth these conflicts were caused by dozens of disagreements and injustices, on all sides.

I see the back story we've gotten, the Path to 2409, to be just like the simplified classes of the young. It is a brief, condensed view of the events leading up to the War.

As such, I believe that the content of this game, the missions themselves, should give us the backstory of the real causes for the War.

Instead of asking for a half-hearted solution to a problem caused by half-hearted measures, let us argue, in fact, let us demand that instead we get a better game, not a worse one, that we get more content, not less, that we get a war that makes sense, not a peace that makes little to none.
The bottom line is there is NO justification for continuing the war. Both the Klingons and Feds are aware that the Iconians are playing everyone against each other to weaken the quadrant for their return. Both factions also have PLENTY of common enemies to fight. It makes perfect sense to end the war, much as it was done in DS9 and join forces against the true threats (Iconians, Borg).

If people want to PvP against each other, use the "war games/tactical exercise" scenario.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilv View Post
The bottom line is there is NO justification for continuing the war. Both the Klingons and Feds are aware that the Iconians are playing everyone against each other to weaken the quadrant for their return. Both factions also have PLENTY of common enemies to fight. It makes perfect sense to end the war, much as it was done in DS9 and join forces against the true threats (Iconians, Borg).

If people want to PvP against each other, use the "war games/tactical exercise" scenario.
It makes sense if the Federation has a fundamentally different approach to the issue.

The war was started because the Feds didn't approve of the Klingons starving the Gorn Homeworld and becoming increasingly expansionist.

In short, the Feds were too idealistic for their option to be considered viable. The klingon don't necessarily wish to fight them but will take territory that serves their interests and their methodology for dealing with the Borg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-23-2012, 10:05 PM
The problem is without the war there is little foundation for additional content for early stages of Klingon Gameplay, which should be what the 'to be fleshed out' Soon™ Klingon Faction should have as a focus for early game play. Much as the early fed missions focus on fighting KDF allied members and eventually thwarting B'vat, early KDF missions should focus on the Federation, and thwarting some sort of dastardly plot the peace mongers are coming up with. Yes, I agree that with the revelation of the Iconian threat there is little cause for the war, but early stages of game play require it, if the war should end, which at some point maybe it should it should be part of the storyline of the game, at a point well beyond where we stand now, not something changing the entire flow of the game entirely. And while we're still at war, in current time (VA/LG and before hand (Lt-Captain) the war should be expanded on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-23-2012, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
It makes sense if the Federation has a fundamentally different approach to the issue.

The war was started because the Feds didn't approve of the Klingons starving the Gorn Homeworld and becoming increasingly expansionist.
That was part of it but again, I point out DS9. The Fed/Klingon war in that show started out much the same as the one in this game and it was decided that it was better for both sides to join forces and work together instead of continuing to fight each other.

Same deal here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilv View Post
The bottom line is there is NO justification for continuing the war. Both the Klingons and Feds are aware that the Iconians are playing everyone against each other to weaken the quadrant for their return. Both factions also have PLENTY of common enemies to fight. It makes perfect sense to end the war, much as it was done in DS9 and join forces against the true threats (Iconians, Borg).

If people want to PvP against each other, use the "war games/tactical exercise" scenario.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about when I wrote:

"a half-hearted solution to a problem caused by half-hearted measures"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-23-2012, 10:13 PM
They could have splintering in the houses of the Klingon Empire. The Council seeks an end to the war, but there are many houses which continue the fighting. The Klingon Empire is too weak and can not justify a civil war at this point, so the status quo could be maintained for a year or so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilv View Post
The bottom line is there is NO justification for continuing the war. Both the Klingons and Feds are aware that the Iconians are playing everyone against each other to weaken the quadrant for their return. Both factions also have PLENTY of common enemies to fight. It makes perfect sense to end the war, much as it was done in DS9 and join forces against the true threats (Iconians, Borg).

If people want to PvP against each other, use the "war games/tactical exercise" scenario.
I totally agree with that. The Fed/Kling war just makes no sense and even if we get an explanation that the UFPs president stole Khaless' candy, it still wouldn't make sense. The alpha-quadrant is at the edge of destruction and two former allies keep ****ing on each others leg because they are INFILTRATED AGAIN (!!!) by a foreign power messing with them to destabilize the quadrant. *They know that*. They dealt with that already. They still can't protect themselves, even if it was just the reintroduction of a simple blood-test?

Or alternatively because the Klingons went all "Klingons strong. Klingons smah. UGAAAH" (what's how the game portrayes the KDF btw.)

I'd like the Fed/Kling alliance reforged (they still have to team up constantly, don't they? ) or at least make it an uneasy peace but it just doesn't make sense. Give us Romulans and some competent allies as the other player faction and introduce some serious PvP system. Thats my opinion on that
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