Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Welcome good Captains, I hope we can help us and Cryptic with this little problem.

As we all know leveling progress quickly throws us out of the barely warmed up (Commander level) Tier 3 captainīs chair.
This not only means all those nice (yes even the golfball :p ) ship models are virtually invisible in the game, but endgame is depressingly monotonous in itīs ship versatility.

Very much unlike ALL the TV and movie shows.

The other big problem is that Cryptic has put themselves needlessly into a corner by trying to come up with "yet another cool gimmick" for those Retrofit ships.
This costs valuable developer and balancing brain juice(ew) resources or simply time.

Another part of this problem is that Cryptic seems to constantly ignore the big elephant in the room their own lore poses.
Case in point, the Fedīs latest ship is yet another explorer barge, while they are beleaguered from ALL sides and basically should be getting their asses kicked.

IMHO the solution to all these problems lies in retrofitting the unused T3(Commander level) ships into BATTLE ships.
Or rather Attack Ships, as BATTLE is more of a designation for a bigger ship class?
I.e. Attack Escorts, Attack Cruisers and Attack/Covert Science Ships.

As they should be scraping the bottom of the barrel for unused but still capable ships, and not for the exploring type.

To finally come to the point of this thread, here are my humble proposals.

All T5 retrofitted T3 ships ..
  • keep their hull & turn rates
  • get another forward weapon slot
  • get their crew compartments halved to make room for the added weapon slot and other tech upgrades
  • if needed get the upgraded T5 shield modifier
  • get the BOFF and console layout of the T3 c-store ships, but with the ltd-cmdr BOFF upgraded to cmdr.
  • get an innate bonus to offset the missing T5 BOFF slot(+x weapon power or accuracy or torp fire rate, etc.)
  • oh yeah and only cost Dilithium(prettyplease )

Now that next to last bullet point is where the cookie crumbles. It has to be something not too over-powered yet good enough to make flying these buckets intriguing.

And it has to be "invisible" as not to cost any bigger Dev resources, so they can finally put those into actual new ships. Appropriate for a universe 40 years after the movies.


I know I have limited the options here severely, but I feel itīs necessary to keep the whole thing manageable balancing wise and still make these ships actually unique to fly.
Sorry to the Tier2/1 and Miranda lovers, theses ships are definitely put out of the race. In case of the Connie even from CBS themselves.

So what do you think of this? Your proposals and ideas?

Edit:slightly changed the name of the class, as described.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-08-2012, 08:53 AM
I like these ideas, for what that is worth.

The whole idea of an officer collecting ships as he ranks is, IMO, a broken part of the game. Star Fleet (the government) owns the ship. When an officer increases rank their capacity of higher duty necessitws reassignment of command to higher responsibility and a more capable ship class, the old ship should ordinarily be sent to space dock for refit. Even smaller older capital ships are a huge resource I vestment. They would continue on duty until no longer functional or functionally obsolete.

A rear admiral or vice admiral should be commanding a battle group consisting of a heavy cruiser or better and attendant vessels.

As for battleships? Yes, definitely, make it so, not just once but twice. The ST cannon of a more peaceful and happy universe should have gone out the window with the Borg invasion and the Dominion Wars. Now in the 25th century we are at open war with an alliance of Klingons, Gorn, Romulans, etc. Time to bring out the Whole War Machine so we can have peace again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FEELTHETHUNDER
As for battleships? Yes, definitely, make it so, not just once but twice. The ST cannon of a more peaceful and happy universe should have gone out the window with the Borg invasion and the Dominion Wars. Now in the 25th century we are at open war with an alliance of Klingons, Gorn, Romulans, etc. Time to bring out the Whole War Machine so we can have peace again.
As much as I agree with the first part, I beg you people to stand down from this total war garbage. Why is it so hard to believe that the UFP and Starfleet rely on thier true meaning and rather be a paramilitary peacekeeping force rather than a battlefleet bend on destruction and conquest? This is what Starfleet has always been. They have a tactical department and built some dedicated ships for combat missions but it's okay now. They won their past wars with their technology and ideals intact (mostly). Why can't you accept this fact as something still unique to the spirit of Star Trek rather than building battleships, battleships and more pew-pew boom.

I like the idea that the Odyssey is once again an exploration/peacekeeping vessel. This is Starfleet. If you don't like that, don't play a Star Trek game or play a Klingon or Romulan char (though those factions are/will be as badly portrayed as the UFP in-game I guess )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-08-2012, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
As much as I agree with the first part, I beg you people to stand down from this total war garbage. Why is it so hard to believe that the UFP and Starfleet rely on thier true meaning and rather be a paramilitary peacekeeping force rather than a battlefleet bend on destruction and conquest? This is what Starfleet has always been. They have a tactical department and built some dedicated ships for combat missions but it's okay now. They won their past wars with their technology and ideals intact (mostly). Why can't you accept this fact as something still unique to the spirit of Star Trek rather than building battleships, battleships and more pew-pew boom.

I like the idea that the Odyssey is once again an exploration/peacekeeping vessel. This is Starfleet. If you don't like that, don't play a Star Trek game or play a Klingon or Romulan char (though those factions are/will be as badly portrayed as the UFP in-game I guess )
Hear hear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aashenfox
Hear hear.
What, the delusional "kum-bah-ya" chants?
How come thereīs always someone disputing the most obvious facts instead of contributing to the actual thread?
How many cubes and squid ships have we scanned and hailed to death?

Please stop derailing the thread and try to come up with an interesting ship bonus.
Or other ideas for making T3 ships viable at endgame without breaking the lore or immersion or maybe most important, dev-time scheduling.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-08-2012, 02:48 PM
I'd like to see more customization options- if the goal is to make ships look more diverse, then just give the ability to use parts from other ships. IE, if you're flying escorts, unlock the ability to use saucers/pylons/nacelles from all of the previous tiers of ships. Granted, some may need to be scaled to size, but it would increase the amount of visual variety tenfold.

As for making old ships new again, it would be interesting to have old ships buffed. But some ships are simply too weak to be considered economically viable for upgrades, when instead it's more efficient to simply build a better ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-08-2012, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
What, the delusional "kum-bah-ya" chants?
How come thereīs always someone disputing the most obvious facts instead of contributing to the actual thread?
How many cubes and squid ships have we scanned and hailed to death?

Please stop derailing the thread and try to come up with an interesting ship bonus.
Or other ideas for making T3 ships viable at endgame without breaking the lore or immersion or maybe most important, dev-time scheduling.
This has nothing to do with hippie-chants I will also only answer to this to not hijack the thread any more but:

You are right, STO is a shooting game and all we do is killing. This is right, though it still somewhat uses the Star Trek theme. In in this, why cannot we simply keep the basic principles of the franchise intact? Starfleets exploration vessels are heavily armed and more than capable to deliever a hefty blow, they have always been. But why do we need more and more warships? Why cannot we enjoy something unique to Star Trek and stick with the utopian ideals the UFP embodies? I know that they had their conflicts and I like that, but we shouldn't change Starfleet's image in a way that we only play another sci-fi total war game with new made-up warships. I don't know how this would anymore differ from EvEs setting, Star Wars, Freespace or something like this.

Starfleet's spirit is not military. It's not the US Army. And that is even more honourable than the most badass warship Honestly, I think we should keep this last bit of "canon"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-09-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
As much as I agree with the first part, I beg you people to stand down from this total war garbage. Why is it so hard to believe that the UFP and Starfleet rely on thier true meaning and rather be a paramilitary peacekeeping force rather than a battlefleet bend on destruction and conquest? This is what Starfleet has always been. They have a tactical department and built some dedicated ships for combat missions but it's okay now. They won their past wars with their technology and ideals intact (mostly). Why can't you accept this fact as something still unique to the spirit of Star Trek rather than building battleships, battleships and more pew-pew boom.

I like the idea that the Odyssey is once again an exploration/peacekeeping vessel. This is Starfleet. If you don't like that, don't play a Star Trek game or play a Klingon or Romulan char (though those factions are/will be as badly portrayed as the UFP in-game I guess )
Well I thank you for your support on the first part, and you are entitled to your opinion on the second. I would agree with you but if i did we would both be wrong. Your tone on the last is condescending.

This is an open forum for sharing views and opinions. Telling others to "don't play" isn't your place. And I think I will continue to play, if that is all right with you? Is that ok with you? Thanks. I knew it would be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-09-2012, 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
As much as I agree with the first part, I beg you people to stand down from this total war garbage. Why is it so hard to believe that the UFP and Starfleet rely on thier true meaning and rather be a paramilitary peacekeeping force rather than a battlefleet bend on destruction and conquest? This is what Starfleet has always been. They have a tactical department and built some dedicated ships for combat missions but it's okay now. They won their past wars with their technology and ideals intact (mostly). Why can't you accept this fact as something still unique to the spirit of Star Trek rather than building battleships, battleships and more pew-pew boom.

I like the idea that the Odyssey is once again an exploration/peacekeeping vessel. This is Starfleet. If you don't like that, don't play a Star Trek game or play a Klingon or Romulan char (though those factions are/will be as badly portrayed as the UFP in-game I guess )
Well, I see what you're saying but I have to disagree. The Federation is EVERYTHING that you said, but they are not stupid. Every time there is a war or LONG conflict we see the Federation come out with a new ship/combat vessel to deal with the threat.

They don't go all out and build a battle fleet to go "a" conquering, but they most certainly don't sit around trying to keep their ideals in tact by not doing anything. They fight to protect their ideals and the freedom of those who share them.

In fact Starfleet is a peace keeping organization as you said, but that in no way means taking part in a war (and doing everything to win it) is against their ideals. Would Starfleet sit idly by while the Borg invade? Would they forget the past encounters with them and decide not to build new ships to fight them?

You also seem to forget we are not technically at war in STO with any of the other factions save the KDF. We are having border skirmishes with the Romulans and Cardassians, but only outright fighting the Klingons (who attacked us first).

So yes, I say there should be a way to allow the lower level ships to be played at T5 (viably). Heck, look at the Equinox in Voyager! That little Nova gave quite a good run for Janeway, it was full of modifications and new parts to help make it cope with the added duties. Why can't we do that here?

-Quiiliitiila
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-09-2012, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiiliitiila
Well, I see what you're saying but I have to disagree. The Federation is EVERYTHING that you said, but they are not stupid. Every time there is a war or LONG conflict we see the Federation come out with a new ship/combat vessel to deal with the threat.

They don't go all out and build a battle fleet to go "a" conquering, but they most certainly don't sit around trying to keep their ideals in tact by not doing anything. They fight to protect their ideals and the freedom of those who share them.

In fact Starfleet is a peace keeping organization as you said, but that in no way means taking part in a war (and doing everything to win it) is against their ideals. Would Starfleet sit idly by while the Borg invade? Would they forget the past encounters with them and decide not to build new ships to fight them?

You also seem to forget we are not technically at war in STO with any of the other factions save the KDF. We are having border skirmishes with the Romulans and Cardassians, but only outright fighting the Klingons (who attacked us first).

So yes, I say there should be a way to allow the lower level ships to be played at T5 (viably). Heck, look at the Equinox in Voyager! That little Nova gave quite a good run for Janeway, it was full of modifications and new parts to help make it cope with the added duties. Why can't we do that here?

-Quiiliitiila
I've got a feeling you've missed the point.
It's not about not refitting, but it's this constant demand for battle here, battle there and this constant feeling people are trying to imitate Edward James Olmos when they shout "We are at War!"
And, to be blunt, that people seem to want to play the Federation without playing the Federation.
"We are the Federation. We have Starfleet, dedicated to peaceful exploration and defending our people...and where are those battleships, battledestroyers and carriers?!"
The point is that to Starfleet dedicated warships are useless outside a war.
Conflicts come and got, but exploration goes on.
Hence the only ship we ever saw in the prime universe that was dedicated to warfare was the Defiant and her purpose was to defend against an enemy (the Borg).
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