Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-24-2012, 08:32 PM
This thread needs a nerf.

Give me your MACO shield, I'll give you my KHG one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-24-2012, 09:30 PM
If it were up to me, I'd nerf maco even more than it already has been. There is no reason to use anything other than Maco on fed side, and no reason to use anything other than KHG shields on Klingon side. That tells me that they are both too powerful.

Ignoring the procs, the sheer stats on Maco and KHG favor KHG quite a bit. Maco used to be [Cap]x4, which was one more cap than any shield has a right to have. It was nerfed down to [Cap]x3, and rightfully so. KHG is still a [Cap]x4, and also has an extra [Reg] modifier. At least the fourth [Cap] should have been taken off KHG shields at the same time it was taken off Maco, but for some reason Cryptic seemed to forget. KHG is also a covariant, which is the best shield type. Now that the name of the game is shield stripping, through theta, CPB, Tachyon beam, Tetryon glider, tractors with the shield drain doff, etc it is very important to have as high capacity as possible.

Regeneration doesn't matter so much anymore. The amount of constant strip that a few tetryon gliders will do far exceeds regeneration rate. Your best bet is capacity. Not only is it easier to withstand an alpha strike, but it gives you more time before your shields will inevitably go down if you have two teams loaded with plenty of tetryon gliders. When your shields are eventually going to go down anyway, resilients don't amount to much.

Keeping the glider aside, since it's hopefully going to get nerfed anyway, the more shield healing you have on a team the more important capacity becomes over regeneration. With the science console buff, as well as the development lab doff, science based shield heals are more potent than ever. A well balanced team will be able to keep themselves at cap easily between pushes, where the larger shields offer an enormous advantage against spike damage.

Now let's compare the procs. The 25% proc rate on both the placate and the accuracy debuff is too high. With the rate that ships deliver and take shots 25% isn't too far off from being 100%. Depending on the attacker's accuracy and the defender's defense values, the accuracy debuff is about equal --perhaps not quite as good -- as the 10% flat resistance the Maco gives, assuming that 10% is calculated in an additive manner. If it's actually multiplicative (like every other shield resist) then the accuracy debuff is far, far superior, since 10% multiplicative shield resist is more or less nothing.

The placate is a no brainier over the power boost. First thing to keep in mind is that the power boost favors some builds over others. A proper science ship runs 125 aux the entire time, so +10aux when being shot at doesn't really help him. The placate on the other hand, is literally an immunity vs. skills like tractor beam and tachyon beam. TB immunity by itself is better than the power proc at the top level of PvP when you are facing a team that is tractor heavy. Placate is basically a 10-20% damage reduction by itself, assuming the enemy player is good at keeping you targeted the moment the placate wears off. It completely messes up escorts, and combined with the accuracy debuff (which cannons are very susceptible to) and the ridiculous amount of capacity, grants near immunity against burst damage when it's in the hands of an even moderately skilled player.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Alecto
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-24-2012, 09:39 PM
You should have started with that and i wouldn't have thought you were trolling (witch for i apologize).
Now that you actually posted something, i see your point and have to agree.
have a nice day
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-24-2012, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAAIIKAAA View Post
You should have started with that and i wouldn't have thought you were trolling (witch for i apologize).
Now that you actually posted something, i see your point and have to agree.
have a nice day
Heh, no problem
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-24-2012, 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
If it were up to me, I'd nerf maco even more than it already has been. There is no reason to use anything other than Maco on fed side, and no reason to use anything other than KHG shields on Klingon side. That tells me that they are both too powerful.

Ignoring the procs, the sheer stats on Maco and KHG favor KHG quite a bit. Maco used to be [Cap]x4, which was one more cap than any shield has a right to have. It was nerfed down to [Cap]x3, and rightfully so. KHG is still a [Cap]x4, and also has an extra [Reg] modifier. At least the fourth [Cap] should have been taken off KHG shields at the same time it was taken off Maco, but for some reason Cryptic seemed to forget. KHG is also a covariant, which is the best shield type. Now that the name of the game is shield stripping, through theta, CPB, Tachyon beam, Tetryon glider, tractors with the shield drain doff, etc it is very important to have as high capacity as possible.

Regeneration doesn't matter so much anymore. The amount of constant strip that a few tetryon gliders will do far exceeds regeneration rate. Your best bet is capacity. Not only is it easier to withstand an alpha strike, but it gives you more time before your shields will inevitably go down if you have two teams loaded with plenty of tetryon gliders. When your shields are eventually going to go down anyway, resilients don't amount to much.

Keeping the glider aside, since it's hopefully going to get nerfed anyway, the more shield healing you have on a team the more important capacity becomes over regeneration. With the science console buff, as well as the development lab doff, science based shield heals are more potent than ever. A well balanced team will be able to keep themselves at cap easily between pushes, where the larger shields offer an enormous advantage against spike damage.

Now let's compare the procs. The 25% proc rate on both the placate and the accuracy debuff is too high. With the rate that ships deliver and take shots 25% isn't too far off from being 100%. Depending on the attacker's accuracy and the defender's defense values, the accuracy debuff is about equal --perhaps not quite as good -- as the 10% flat resistance the Maco gives, assuming that 10% is calculated in an additive manner. If it's actually multiplicative (like every other shield resist) then the accuracy debuff is far, far superior, since 10% multiplicative shield resist is more or less nothing.

The placate is a no brainier over the power boost. First thing to keep in mind is that the power boost favors some builds over others. A proper science ship runs 125 aux the entire time, so +10aux when being shot at doesn't really help him. The placate on the other hand, is literally an immunity vs. skills like tractor beam and tachyon beam. TB immunity by itself is better than the power proc at the top level of PvP when you are facing a team that is tractor heavy. Placate is basically a 10-20% damage reduction by itself, assuming the enemy player is good at keeping you targeted the moment the placate wears off. It completely messes up escorts, and combined with the accuracy debuff (which cannons are very susceptible to) and the ridiculous amount of capacity, grants near immunity against burst damage when it's in the hands of an even moderately skilled player.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Alecto
1st Tet Glider counter is broken. It's wrong to argue based on a team using something when the counter is broken.

2nd you ignore the fact KDF ships in general have much less hull, and the KHG shields allow for 2x more leeching before taking into account the 10% resists.

3rd you left out the +10 energy levels (or maybe even more as no one answered my questions in other posts regarding the potential via skills/consoles to boost the proc) proc the MACOs have.

4th Here's a tip. Tb a KHG target, then select a second target to shoot @ and you won't drop your tb.

To be fair the -25% maybe too much of an accuracy drop, but we won't know until they fix FaW. I've always thought that was high though.

But, I'd still take the MACO over KHG shields b/c is still has a solid buffer, it's resiliant, it has +10 (again maybe more) to power, and has 10% resist bonus.

Last, go read some of the old posts in the PVE section, if you want I can dig up a link for you. People were kicking & screaming the sets weren't powerful enough. It's unlikely any stf items will be nerfed for that reason alone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-24-2012, 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
1st Tet Glider counter is broken. It's wrong to argue based on a team using something when the counter is broken.
Hence the paragraph describing what will happen once gliders get nerfed or fixed. With the increased power of shield healing, pure capacity becomes even more important than it was before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
2nd you ignore the fact KDF ships in general have much less hull
Are you serious? Or was that just a typo? The BoP has less hull, but is in a class of it's own. Other Klingon escorts have more hull, the Varanus has more hull, the Bortas has more hull, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
and the KHG shields allow for 2x more leeching before taking into account the 10% resists.
Uh, wut?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
3rd you left out the +10 energy levels (or maybe even more as no one answered my questions in other posts regarding the potential via skills/consoles to boost the proc) proc the MACOs have.
I specifically mention them, and directly compare them to the placate proc. You'll need to read again. Pretty sure that the boost, as well as the KHG procs, are not affected by skills at all. The fact that you single out that one aspect as being something that might be buffed by skills -- ignoring the fact that the same might hold true for the KHG shield -- betrays your desperate bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
4th Here's a tip. Tb a KHG target, then select a second target to shoot @ and you won't drop your tb.
Duh, but the point of tractor beaming a target is to lower the defense value and make them easier to focus fire. If you can't focus fire the target, it kind of defeats the purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
But, I'd still take the MACO over KHG shields b/c is still has a solid buffer, it's resiliant, it has +10 (again maybe more) to power, and has 10% resist bonus.
That's fine. People who know how to play the game will still prefer KHG. There's also still little information on whether that 10% resist is additive or multiplicative. Makes a pretty huge difference. Either way KHG has the edge, but if it's multiplicative that edge is more of a chasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
Last, go read some of the old posts in the PVE section, if you want I can dig up a link for you. People were kicking & screaming the sets weren't powerful enough. It's unlikely any stf items will be nerfed for that reason alone.
If your logic was sound then they woulnd't have taken the fourth [Cap] modifier off of the Maco shields in the first place. Overpowered items are overpowered and need to be balanced, period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-25-2012, 12:10 AM
Macro resil STILL have a lot of cap for a resil shield. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-25-2012, 12:21 AM
The KHG shields should stay the same except for the proc rate. 25% is too much when you're getting pounded by multiple weapon shots (not to mention multiple players).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-25-2012, 12:41 AM
wow did not know the new sheild was x4. my only rant was how they keep cloaking with every shot i put on a ship that has thoes sheilds. what i would like to know is why do they cloak up every 5 secs? is it due to the damage im putting out? also why cant my sci team clear that crap? its very frusting. and yes klinks have the best ship set and consoles. it seems they are getting catered too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-25-2012, 12:43 AM
That's the placate proc. 25% chance for you to lose targeting and visuals on your target for a sec every time you hit someone with KHG shields.

And, yes, they are Cov[Cap]x4. Don't forget the KHG shields have an extra regen modifier too.

Maco = [Cap]x3
KHG = [Cap]x4[Reg]
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