Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I've hit VA, and I've managed to nail down most of my preferred Boff skills, but I'm still bouncing back and forth on the ship I want to make my main for most endgame content.

Part of the problem is I can't really test out certain ships without dropping a ton of cryptic points, so, I'm wondering if other folks can give me their general ideas on the STF and pvp capacity of the following ship types

obviously, there are variations and advantages to all of them - I'm wondering if folks can give me a general overview of the following classes, classes that I can't really afford to be testing out...

Assault Cruiser - I've played through most of admiral lower and upper in an Assault cruiser, and I found it to be quite decent. Good movement and turn, good weapons and console layout, and I got used to the Boff layout - there are several ship classes that seem to be *marginally* better, however, and I'm wondering if that margin turns out to be deceptively small, or unexpectedly big...

Dreadnought - I've played the assault cruiser class, and the dreadnought appears to mostly be assault cruiser + - same Boff layout, same consoles, reduced turn, but some fun special abilities - at least on paper. I'm wondering, the turn rate drop on the dreadnought - is it more crippling than it sounds, or is it still manageable - the cloak and phaser lance, are they effective additions to the ship? or just look good on paper?

Star Cruiser - say what you will, but the star cruiser layout doesn't seem all that bad either. Its got the maneuverability of the assault cruiser, the loss of a low tier tac boff for the add on of a low tier sci boff - I can also get it with dilithium (admittedly, a LOT of dilithium) - any tac captains driving a star cruiser, is there a SIGNIFICANT difference between it and the assault cruiser? positive? negative?

Exelsior Refit (Enterprise - B style) - I'm really torn - i've flown the excelsior, and it was a good ship - this version, however, is a pile of really good and really uncomfortable - the different layout of engineer boffs means a significant re-tooling of my current engineer boff skills, the increased tactical slot however would allow me to slot attack pattern omega, which again, sounded really good (on paper) - the increased turn radius, the buff to power levels

can anyone tell me if the excelsior refit performs as well on paper as it looks, or doesn't? the different engineer layouts? are they really cripplingly different, or can you manage all right?

**also, can anyone tell me, attack pattern omega says something about removing speed debuffs and such - does that include graviton whatchmajiggers? tractor beams? warp plasma?**

Odyssey - I'm actually flying an odyssey right now, and its...weird. Its a big pretty ship, no doubt (although I still think I could have done better ) and its got a very comfortable Boff layout (using the tier 3 universal boff as engineer so it matches the star cruiser layout) - it *does* seem to be slow, but on paper, at least, shouldn't be any slower than the galaxy's and Dreadnoughts - its a reasonable ship, but I'm wondering if one of the other classes would prove to be significantly *better*

I know many people are going to remind me that much of my choice in ship depends on playstyle/preference, and I understand that. But I'm wondering if some folks can give me a rundown on their personal experiences with these classes of ships, highlight some of the unexpected advantages, the unexpected disads, the things that sounded good on paper vs how they actually perform, and so forth

thank you all for your time and effort
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-25-2012, 02:25 PM
The only question is WHY? Why cruiser as tactical? If your don't want to deal dmg and want to tank or heal why are you playing tactical? No point playing in cruiser as tactical, u cant keep it alive and u can't do real dmg so u r useless. And i hate all of them who come into elit stf as tactical in a damn odyssey.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-25-2012, 02:33 PM
debating whether this is a serious reply, or a flame - but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt

#1 - why? cuz I like cruisers. I don't like escorts...call it an aesthetic thing, but thats the way I fly

#2 - while I can certainly see why having a tac captain in a cruiser is not maximizing my outgoing dps potential, I've read a lot of threads indicating that tac captains in cruisers, and cruiser designs in general, can be more than acceptable and effective at all levels of gameplay. I suppose its possible that a certain section of the population will accept nothing less than maximized performance (tac in escort, eng in cruiser, sci in sci), I suspect that a tac captain in a cruiser can still be a viable choice, and I'm looking forward to seeing if there is someone willing to contest your opinion

#3 - as for you hating people that come into elite stf's with their odysseys, and I may regret asking this, but *why*, besides the "why a tac captain in a cruiser?* - is there something about the performance of odyssey that makes it a fundamental liability in the harder content stfs?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-25-2012, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitgb View Post
debating whether this is a serious reply, or a flame - but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt

#1 - why? cuz I like cruisers. I don't like escorts...call it an aesthetic thing, but thats the way I fly

#2 - while I can certainly see why having a tac captain in a cruiser is not maximizing my outgoing dps potential, I've read a lot of threads indicating that tac captains in cruisers, and cruiser designs in general, can be more than acceptable and effective at all levels of gameplay. I suppose its possible that a certain section of the population will accept nothing less than maximized performance (tac in escort, eng in cruiser, sci in sci), I suspect that a tac captain in a cruiser can still be a viable choice, and I'm looking forward to seeing if there is someone willing to contest your opinion

#3 - as for you hating people that come into elite stf's with their odysseys, and I may regret asking this, but *why*, besides the "why a tac captain in a cruiser?* - is there something about the performance of odyssey that makes it a fundamental liability in the harder content stfs?
Don't listen to that guy. He obviously doesn't understand how to play. That said...

I am also tac, and i have these 3 of the ships you mentioned and my comments about them are as follows...

Assualt - very good overall cruiser, I have and use it, very fun to play. Both turn rate, survival and dps are all good, just not not excellent. Soloing cubes are a breeze since you can actually let the plasma torp hit you and survive the torp kills the cube also).

Dread - also have one, and LOVE it. It is by far the highest dps cruiser, with survival that's almost as good as any other cruiser. Most people don't like the cloak, but activate all dmg buffs, de-cloak, and phaser lance before you shoot anything other weapon = wtfpwnage. The turn rate is pretty slow, you'll see a significant decrease, but evasive manuvers + revers help solve some of the issue.

Note: it always feels like I survive better in the dread, but stat wise they're almost identical so it might just be me.

Odyssey - odd ship to use, most people have no idea how to use it. For a tac you need to really go out of your way to outfit the ship so that it can dps; and even then, the dps will not be as good as the assualt cruiser. So it has the highest survival of the 3, but it trades noticeable dps for it. It also feels very cumbersome even though the turn rate is the same as the dread.

On a side note:

I don't have the excelsio-R, but others in my fleet have, and it's a nice ship. Slightly higher dps than the assualt, and it might even have as much dmg output as dread (I would argue that it doesn't). But it's the most squishy out of the ship, as I see it blow up way more than my dread. When doing fleet runs we don't use components to heal the ships (mostly for fun) so at the end we compare how many injuries we have... and usually I have less.

Also I've posted my build for the assualt and dread on couple other thread in case you're interested. Credit to Hakashin (spelling?) whoes dread build gave me the general concept for mine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-25-2012, 02:52 PM
We used to have a massive forum post all about cruisers that a great many of the group put in place. I will break it down in a simplistic forms

BEST DPS
1 - Excel (refit) and Gal (refit) are neck and neck. For a tac captain the Excel is a great choice
2 - Gal X (since its update barely edging out the Sovereign)
3 - Sovereign
4 - Star Cruiser

Best Survivor
1 - Star Cruiser
2 - Gal (refit)
3 - Sovereign/Gal X
4 - Excel (refit)

Now the oddessy is a odd horse... with that Universal LTC slot, this opens up the first true hybrid. You can change builds around for this and make it tac heavy and still have great heals.

Overall its the best hybride of the bunch.

What I fly? lol i am no helpth ere neighbor, I have them all and like them all.

Still for a tac heavy like you? AC, if you cant afford a Excel refit
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-25-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoson View Post
We used to have a massive forum post all about cruisers that a great many of the group put in place. I will break it down in a simplistic forms

BEST DPS
1 - Excel (refit) and Gal (refit) are neck and neck. For a tac captain the Excel is a great choice
2 - Gal X (since its update barely edging out the Sovereign)
3 - Sovereign
4 - Star Cruiser

Best Survivor
1 - Star Cruiser
2 - Gal (refit)
3 - Sovereign/Gal X
4 - Excel (refit)

Now the oddessy is a odd horse... with that Universal LTC slot, this opens up the first true hybrid. You can change builds around for this and make it tac heavy and still have great heals.

Overall its the best hybride of the bunch.

What I fly? lol i am no helpth ere neighbor, I have them all and like them all.

Still for a tac heavy like you? AC, if you cant afford a Excel refit
lol if you can't get more dps out a galaxy-x than an excelsior then i'm mpretty sure you're not doing it right. and there is just no way the galaxy-R can out dps all those ship... galaxy-R is more like the odyssey... tank/heal heavy and low dps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-25-2012, 03:35 PM
thank you all so far - still checking this thread for other inputs as well
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-26-2012, 02:36 AM
so, i've been thinking over the starship choices (i've got a lot of time on my hand), and an interesting point came up in zone chat (first time for everything)

some guy was complaining about tac captains that bring in cruisers - and he was being a bit of a jerk about it, but he brought up one interesting point that got me rethinking - he said most tac captains (and he may have been exaggerating on quantity, but the point is still good) try to fly cruisers like they're escorts - high outgoing dps and maneuverability, and the ships simply CANNOT work that way

and, regardless of his attitude, he might be right - I'm not actually trying to fly escort dps in a cruiser - i'm just looking for a cruiser with good survivability (cuz thats what cruisers do, right?) while trying to eek the best dps I can out of the ships assigned set-up

anyway, the more I thought about it, the more I'm leaning AWAY from the Excelsior refit - which is too bad, cuz its a beautiful ship - but, with the higher turn rate and the extra tac level, the excelsior refit is edging closer to escort territory - but it still won't manuever as well as an escort, it won't do as much dps, and it'll lose a...modest to significant amount of that cruiser survivability in doing so - at least, again, thats how it looks to me on paper - so very hard to tell without flying it with some decent gear

i'm also starting to see the value of my odyssey - instead of trying to shore up its escorty-weaknesses, like poor turn rate into *slightly less* poor turn rate, and fudging tac, sci and eng skills for better dps, perhaps I should just embrace the whale-boaty-ness of it, and stack on as much damage resist and shield regen and such as I can

so, that leaves me with the Dreadnought as a true conundrum. The dreadnought is also going to have that large cruiser lack of maneuverability, so why should I tweak it out for dps like an escort...EXCEPT - with cannon mounts, the phaser lance, and the extra low level tac slot, maybe, maybe I *could* create a cruiser with somewhat comparable escort dps without escort manueverability but *with* much higher cruiser-esque survivability...again, on paper

star cruiser's still a contender on the survivability side, but with 3000 extra hull and the +20 to power systems, the only advantage the star cruiser has over the oddy is the slightly better turn rate - plus, i can buy that with dilithium i ever get really bored and want to try it out

still interested in any other points of view - thanks for all the contributions so far
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-26-2012, 06:34 AM
This won't help you selection, but on the KDF side my tactical captains a Bortas and continues to out DPS my BoP in stf. The point being that you don't have to be a tactical officer in an escort to play very well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-26-2012, 07:47 AM
The Assault Cruiser was my personal choice before switching to the Oddysey. The A-Cruiser can be set up to take a sickening amount of tanking damage and doing your "DPS" duties by aggroing the hell out of everything in the area and opening the door for your Escort obsessed Tac brethren. With a decent set of MK XI gear (I used the Borg set), Elite difficulty space missions were reduced to only moderately challenging, with the Salvage Dispute being the only one I'd dial back to Advanced before doing.
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