Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
02-27-2012, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
The problem isn't just lack of a major villain, it's lack of important characters in general. You don't really make any connections with any characters throughout the game.

The major thing lacking in the storyline missions are memorable recurring characters. Star Trek was about characters, not just flying around in ships. And while the player's character will always play a large role in resolving problems, they should still get help/hindrance from memorable NPCs.
I would be inclined to agree with this.

Voice can make a real difference here for building a relationship. I hope as they remaster some episodes in the future they can build some of this into the storyline. We would really benefot from a Gul Du'Kat figure throughout the Cardassian sector missions and otehrs elsewhere.

I would add that if there was more characterisation built into the existing stories it would add a lot of qaulity to adding a few odd missions here and there between content droughts that built on existing stories.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
02-27-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Restless.Kaiser
I would be inclined to agree with this.

Voice can make a real difference here for building a relationship. I hope as they remaster some episodes in the future they can build some of this into the storyline. We would really benefot from a Gul Du'Kat figure throughout the Cardassian sector missions and otehrs elsewhere.

I would add that if there was more characterisation built into the existing stories it would add a lot of qaulity to adding a few odd missions here and there between content droughts that built on existing stories.
I think they could do it outside of the episodes. My ideal is a system that's half-crafting, half-DOffs, designed to provide a "post-mission" or "between missions" activity.

Imagine that Mek the Disagreeable daily on Qo'noS but fleshed out into a system that involves consulting with specialists, talking to bartenders, interviewing natives, etc. And then build that into an exploration revamp.

A side system based around talking to people, where your decisions and recent mission progress shape your advancement.

If nothing else, to direct you to certain hubs so you can unload by gabbing with bartenders... But I have thoughts on how to tie some pretty big storylines into that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
02-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Bring back some of the younger YOY crew to be involved in story arcs, for people that seen the show would be easier to connect with them.

- Going on missions both solo and group with Seven of Nine against the borg.
- Starfleet and Klingon missions led by B'Elanna Torres and Wulf.
- Missons provided by Tuvok and Data
- Missions provided by Admiral Paris (the 2nd) and Admiral Janeway (If shes alive)
- Missions and storys expanded for Miral Paris and Naomi Wildman
- Missions involving the EMH (The Doctor/Joe...)
- Going on missions and doing new STFs with Voyager and with the Enterprise.

Temperal storylines, that involved the player going back intime to The Enterprise and Voyager, reliving important story arcs and missions and proventing damage to the timeline by some archvillian. Prehaps the Iconians, or the Undine or Borg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
02-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrorize89
Bring back some of the younger YOY crew to be involved in story arcs, for people that seen the show would be easier to connect with them.

- Going on missions both solo and group with Seven of Nine against the borg.
- Starfleet and Klingon missions led by B'Elanna Torres and Wulf.
- Missons provided by Tuvok and Data
- Missions provided by Admiral Paris (the 2nd) and Admiral Janeway (If shes alive)
- Missions and storys expanded for Miral Paris and Naomi Wildman
- Missions involving the EMH (The Doctor/Joe...)
- Going on missions and doing new STFs with Voyager and with the Enterprise.

Temperal storylines, that involved the player going back intime to The Enterprise and Voyager, reliving important story arcs and missions and proventing damage to the timeline by some archvillian. Prehaps the Iconians, or the Undine or Borg.
Using existing characters from the series requires Cryptic to obtain Likeness Rights from the actors, and that can cost money as most Trek actors didn't do much after Trek other then get paid to attend conventions. IE, they like to make money from their Trek success.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
02-27-2012, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I think it needs villains with more pronounced personalities.

Nameless waves of enemies either need to be working FOR someone or to have a spokesperson.

That's why even the Borg were paired with Q, Locutus, Lore, and the Borg Queen. Even an impersonal force of nature needs a face attached to it.

STO has a few of these with B'vat, Hakeev, Laas,and Gul Madred. But it could use more and definitely more who survive multiple story arcs.
I think humanizing the Borg to a degree with the 'Borg Queen' did a GREAT dis-service to the Borg as a scary and thetening enemy. The 'force of nature/locust swarm' analogy of their first appearances and the fact that they NEVER negotiate (back up by Q and Guinan's comments in Q-Who really made theem a great villian becaiuse in that form here was something te Federation couuldn't fix by talking - it was kill or be killed; something we really hadn't seen in Star Trek since TOS.

IMO - someone above said Dukat was the greatest villian Trek produced and I whole-heartedly disagree. Dukat came across as as a whiney sniveler in most of his appearances (they improved him near the end of the series run but he never struck me as anything special.

Niw, Elim Garek (in 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy like form) - there was a GREAT Trek villian (and he was/is a villian, make no mistake.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
02-27-2012, 11:55 AM
I don't think they need to use the series characters per se. It's possible to create new characters based on the Trek lore. Even if you take a basic archetype and tweak it a little, you'll get a character. For example, take a Vulcan from the show Spock/Tuvok, etc. They have certain traits they share.

Now just put them in a new character with a unique back story and some other personal characteristics. You get a character that can fill that some role, but at the same time is unique. And by building off of previous characters you can "co-opt" some of the feelings the players has for them.

Franklin Drake is an example of this in action. He's basically a rip-off of Sloan from DS9, but he's his own person. And that's OK. He fills that role, even if he's not he most original character. As a plus, the animosity the player probably feels toward Sloan gets transferred to him.

There were some characters introduced throughout the game's episodes, we just didn't see them again and few of them were very fleshed out. What I'm saying is we see Franklin Drake maybe two times. Instead of that we should have heard from him half a dozen times. And he should have been more fleshed out in the process. Why he joined Section 31, etc.

Captain Thelin of the U.S.S. Kirk, you bump into him a couple of times. Give him more personality. Make a couple episodes that revolve more around him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
BTW, depending on how much they had to edit for time, I discussed this in my Primetime UGC interview which I think goes live today.
I'll have to check out the interview.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
02-27-2012, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
Throughout the game there are minor villains like B'Vat, and Harkeev and a couple of other who appear in a couple of episodes but we seem to be sorely lacking a major recurring villain.

Now I know a lot of the big trek villains only ever appeared in a handful of missions but they would often hang around for years. All our villains seem to be dead within a 5 episode arc that take place one after the other. You cant build up decent villians if they all get killed too soon.

Now that we have voice over and cut scenes these characters can play a more prominent role in the story, so please can we start fleshing them out and giving our captains some real challenges?
I think your forgetting the Iconians, they have been known to work in the shadows and manipulate to their own ends, the problem is that there is such little content to focus on to get the whole thing into a sort of picture about a major villain, Hakeev, Sela and such have been known to consort with the Iconians and i wouldnt be surprised if the Devidians, B'vat and the Borg are all onside in order to get the Iconians what they wan the most.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
02-27-2012, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
Niw, Elim Garek (in 'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy like form) - there was a GREAT Trek villian (and he was/is a villian, make no mistake.)
I don't know if he was exactly a villain, but more a multifaceted character. He wasn't just good or evil. Frankly that sort of depth and ambiguity existed in a lot of characters in DS9, including Captain Sisko, and that's one reason I think it is the best Trek series.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
02-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I don't know if he was exactly a villain, but more a multifaceted character. He wasn't just good or evil. Frankly that sort of depth and ambiguity existed in a lot of characters in DS9, including Captain Sisko, and that's one reason I think it is the best Trek series.
i loved the character Garak, hes like a puzzle box inside a puzzle box and some of his humor for certain situations i liked very much. i dont think he was a vallain, he may of had a past that he regrets to a point but his intention of redeeming himself has never waned, thats the act of a hero because hes done things for the Federation (admittedly as a side effect) and his homeworld that change things for the better like the dominion pull out and providing cruicial intel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
02-27-2012, 12:49 PM
If only there was a super human product of late 20th century genetic engineering... who escaped certain capture aboard a sleeper ship only to be found by the hero, and thwart his attempts to take over his ship and murder him? Then only to make a return after being marooned and escape his exile to seek out his arch nemesis only to destroy himself in the process?

Not all villains can be as great as Khan himself. (Which if you really think about it, he only made 2 major on screen appearances, but is still considered one of the greatest evil villains in all of Sci-Fi.)

I think if you really look at Star Trek, the only real villain to Star Trek are ones that threaten everything the Federation (or the KDF) stands for. Look at ST I for instance? Who was the bad guy? Voyager VI. It wasn't even a person, but a Machine.... Created by man only to be turned against him. Much like all Star Trek I think you can find a real handful of good villains, and I think STO does a pretty good job of that.

The other flip side is how may people actually read every dialog box that comes on the screen, and seeks out answers to questions presented in the game? I think if you got as immersed in the STO universe as we all do in the movies and TV series the true villains would be known. I think there are several of them to note, such as B'Vat, Donatra, The Borg (Can you really single out just one? The borg are just evil enough.) etc...

Thankfully for us though we have the Foundry to tell our own stories, and make our own Villains.
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