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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
03-03-2012, 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
That being said I agree with your list for the most part but I'll add just one more caveat. Engies in Nebulas are amazing when setup correctly. I imagine they work in Dkyr's too (as much as anything works in the Dkyr) since their boff layouts and other characteristics are similar.
Still not really a fan. There are really two options with an eng/nebula:

1. You can use it in place of your engie/cruiser. It doesn't fit the main healer role as well. It doesn't have the same damage output, and it doesn't have the same spam clearing ability. It has more control though. It might be handy if you don't have enough Sci/sci on your team, but the cruiser is going to be better in most premade setups.

2. You replace a sci/sci and lose an SNB. But why? Engineers are good for power management and survivability. Power management means a lot in an eight beam array cruiser, but isn't much of a concern for a six weapon slot nebula, of which multiple slots are likely kinetic. Survivability is an easy sacrifice to make when you have a single main heal cruiser, with a number of exclusive but very important skills (like eng team, or ES3), and who's death will often lead to a domino effect. Having one extra hardened science ship out of two or three other science ships makes little to no sense. Especially when subnukes can be used to ruin alpha strikes and gain initiative, and scattering field + science fleet plays such a role in hardening the entire team.

Either way, when you look at things in a premade setting, it's just not worth the trade-off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
03-03-2012, 07:40 AM
Oh I'll agree for most premades it's not the best choice. However there are setups it works in, it actually heals much better now thanks to the silly doff system which is something to also remember. (I'm still not sure how I feel about how doffs have changed things and just how important they really are...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
03-03-2012, 07:52 AM
1) If you get beaten, it's probably not because the other team cheats, but rather because you are not good enough.

2) http://bit.ly/HilbertGuide
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
03-03-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
Just refer to my handy chart:

Tact/Scort -- playing your class
Sci/Scort -- playing your class
Eng/Scort -- hyrbird fail build

Tact/Cruiser -- Usually hybrid fail build (but has the potential to be good in certain, rare setups)
Sci/cruiser -- Hybrid fail build
Eng/Cruiser -- playing your class

Tac/Sci -- Hybird fail build (almost excusable, but losing SNB and sci skills just isn't worth it)
Sci/Sci -- Playing your class
Eng/Sci -- Hybrid fail build

If your ship and class don't have synergy you're flying a hybrid fail build. Even if your ship and class do have synergy there's also a good chance you're flying a hybrid fail build. An engineer cruiser has synergy, but is still a hybrid fail build if it runs two copies of DEM in place of high level heals. Any ship that has more than two team abilities has some hybrid fail, and if you have all three team abilities on your ship, you're running a hybird fail build. Science vessels that don't run full aux and instead try to pew are hybrid fail builds. An escort with two copies of delta and an engineering team is a hybrid fail build.

Playing your class means not using a stupid career/ship combination, and not overly hybridizing yourself with skills that take away from your primary role. Pugs are more susceptible to hybrid fail builds than premades, because pugs feel the need to take skills they are unsuited for simply because they can't rely on their team, like science team. Premades are more free to min-max, but most of them don't anyway.
I don't think "playing your class" and "hybrid fail builds" are really apt terminology here, for the most part. Simply "effective" and "ineffective" would be more precise. There's nothing "hybrid" about an engineer using engineering skills like DEM in a cruiser, for instance, but it's simply an ineffective way to go. Meanwhile, sci/escort is a hybrid build, but one that works effectively. Also, your use of the term "playing your class" doesn't really seem to have any specific meaning here except the broader idea of just running an effective build.

Being more clear and concise in these matters in the future can help us avoid long semantic discussions like the one we're currently having by understanding what's trying to be said from the get-go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
03-03-2012, 04:05 PM
1.) Play both factions. At least one character fedside, and one KDF side. This will give you a good overview of the ship types available in the game, how they work, and the common tactics each side uses.

2.) Play one of each class, if possible. This will give you basic knowledge of each class's strengths, weaknesses, abilities and powers and when planetside, what their kits do. If you know your allies and enemies, you can better coordinate your team to win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
03-04-2012, 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
Play your class, don't try to be creative. If you have a tactical, don't put him in the friggin' Odyssey.

Instead of making weird fail hybrid builds, focus your creative energy on figuring out new ways to play your class better.
I respectfully have to disagree with you here Dri. My primary on the klink side is a tac and since its release during the anniversary event I’ve taken the Bortas and honed it into my own. I seldom die in it, the way she’s geared I seldom pull anything less than 250k damage a match out of her and I can even lend support around to my unit if needed. And she’s versatile too, even with the LTC slot relegated to tactical I have options to turn out in her. And if I focused on trying to make a rap or BoP work I’d of been cheated of these load outs. Creativity should be encouraged, not stifled.

I mean granted when I got the Bortas it was a steaming pile of schist and I did die a fair bit as I geared her up and honed my tactics but now I dare say she’s probably one of the biggest tactical damage threats in any match I go into. I suppose the only advice I can offer to people making the so called “fail builds” is just keep tooling with it and eventually you’ll mold it into something…for the most part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bmr1580 View Post
Seriously though, even in random pugs it can work. This one time, at PvP camp, I was in a PUG that suffered the first 4 deaths. I called for a regroup, took them to the side, taught them how to spam distribute shields and to watch for my target calls in chat. We won 15-4 against 4 premade members and a pug.
Coordination, cooperation and communication are pivotal to any team success to be had in PVP. People like TSI, the Sad Pandas etc they do these three Cs as well as anyone in the game. It’s why they are where they are and why they have the reputations they do around the game.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...EpicPVPwin.jpg

But as shown here, even they can fall to said tactics. Even from a PUG.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
03-04-2012, 01:22 AM
dribyelruh is coming from the prospective of something like *only ever do premade vs premade*

And in that kind of environment something like an Eng/escort/raptor or a tac/cruiser isnt whats ideal because you pretty much require certain things, one of those being lots of sci. Or a cruiser that can dish out heals and not suck up the rest of the teams. And 1 maybe 2 escorts that can spike harder as a Tac than an Eng

However, its a big game, and not everyone plays that way, some simply enjoy playing on random teams. For those people I would say,

1. Have a plan, Am I healing the team, disrupting/controlling the enemy team, or am I spiking like crazy.
2. experiment, refine your setup once or twice a week.
2a, bring boffs with different abilities so if you die, you can swap and adapt to what the enemy is showing and what your team needs from you. "is the enemy spamming tractor beams?" Now I have polarize hull so its no problem.
2c, stop using jam sensors, really just do it
2d, stop using boarding party. Everyone has tac team/Fire at will
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
03-04-2012, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa27 View Post
dribyelruh is coming from the prospective of something like *only ever do premade vs premade*
It's true, and he's right, for premades.

However solo's quite a bit different, where eng/cruisers can't kill other cruisers, and the only captain who has any chance of actually winning a cruiser vs cruiser duel is tactical, because even they can out-tank the damage delt by any other captain's cruiser. Meanwhile, engscorts don't have the same burst damage as a tactical but don't explode when looked at funny, a trait that is important when you don't have a buddy to stream heals into you.

I still can't think of any sort of use for tac/sci, eng/sci or sci/cruiser, though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
03-04-2012, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koopa27 View Post
dribyelruh is coming from the prospective of something like *only ever do premade vs premade*

And in that kind of environment something like an Eng/escort/raptor or a tac/cruiser isnt whats ideal because you pretty much require certain things, one of those being lots of sci. Or a cruiser that can dish out heals and not suck up the rest of the teams. And 1 maybe 2 escorts that can spike harder as a Tac than an Eng

However, its a big game, and not everyone plays that way, some simply enjoy playing on random teams. For those people I would say,

1. Have a plan, Am I healing the team, disrupting/controlling the enemy team, or am I spiking like crazy.
2. experiment, refine your setup once or twice a week.
2a, bring boffs with different abilities so if you die, you can swap and adapt to what the enemy is showing and what your team needs from you. "is the enemy spamming tractor beams?" Now I have polarize hull so its no problem.
2c, stop using jam sensors, really just do it
2d, stop using boarding party. Everyone has tac team/Fire at will


my thoughts....good post btw...

Koopa stated to bring to bring extra boffs, this is fanatastic advice. i have up to 25 boffs on all my toons, and swap them out depending on what i see. especially while pugging. but have your premade setup boffs ready to go at the drop of a hat.....because you never know when you warp into a 4 man premade...and your the 5th wheel....do the best to fill your role given what your other 4 already teamed teammates are running.

also....why can't people just pugmade? its what opvp is for you know....among other things. my comments in opvp when i want to have a team but not enough players in the fleet to go out: "Tacscort looking for cruiser with extends willing to help me kill bad guys"

heck, i like pugging tho, its how i got started, and i continue to enjoy hours of just random teammates. but really tho guys....if you want a great pvp experience, just find more people to play with regularly.

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
03-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Try to have fun
Leave the ego at the door
This is probably the truest thing in this thread. The first, why keep playing if you're not having fun? Failing the second is probably one of the most common failures in the game. If you can't check the ego, you can't progress as a player. It's simple as that.
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