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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-05-2012, 09:25 AM
Are there any tactical consoles that do not provide damage boosters?

I thought that was what it was for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
your talking about cutting all damage in game in half or worse, without doing similar to defense. that's frankly insane.
They already do... only 1 field generator, for example. The game actually could do with a modest cutback in damage.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 23
03-05-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
They already do... only 1 field generator, for example. The game actually could do with a modest cutback in damage.
Normally I'd say no, but the whole game needs an overhaul so stuff doesn't blow up with a few volleys from a single ship

Last night for instance I did the "Pi canis sortie" missions on my Lower level general, with a raptor.

One opening volley completely disabled a Sovereign classes front shields, plus inflicted severe damage on the ship, the second volley finished it, it was over in about 4? seconds.

Just doesn't seem right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aashenfox
Math please. Or give me the DR formula for phaser relays and I'll do it myself.

Do you think its right that tac consoles are a no-brainer? Everyone simply stacks the damage console of their energy type?

Quick math, even assuming no DR, and not taking into account multipliers (besides, who knows when the multipliers are applied? in any case, % is %.

Phaser beam does 1000 nominal damage. Each 26% phaser relay (lets say 3 as an average user), assuming no diminishing returns, adds 260. 260x3=780+1000=1780.

Phaser beam does 1000 nominal damage. ONE phaser relay adds 260. Now you can stack as many 18% ones as you like, lets say 2. Each one adds 180 (assuming no DR again) 260+360+1000=1620. 160 damage difference. 11% less.

Since phaser relays DO have diminishing returns, that difference would be even less. Hardly state-of-play changing.

Of course, this would ideally be complimented with the addition of some other more interesting tac consoles.

Besides, damage does need toning down a bit, encounters are already too short when everyone does what they're supposed to.
the factor your missing in your math is time. tactical ships barley have enough firepower to threaten skilled players, a large % of their damage missing over the course of a match will make them useless. for an escort with 4 tac consoles we are talking about a difference of 800 additional damage vs 1040, with a weapon that deals 1000 damage. that's nearly a 25% decrease in their added damage, that would be like running only 3 and leaving your 4th blank.

a missing 240 damage every shot is a HUGE difference. ships are firing 6-8 weapons at a time, each weapon often fires multiple shots per second. if 8 beam arrays that deal 1800 damage a shot each fire once per second for 10 seconds they will deal144000 damage in that time. if 8 beam arrays deal 2040 damage a shot each fire once per second for 10 seconds they will deal 163200 damage.

that still may be only an 11% difference, but in terms of raw damage its 25200 damage you would be missing. that's more then enough to mean the difference between a getting kill and not getting a kill every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
They already do... only 1 field generator, for example. The game actually could do with a modest cutback in damage.
that has always been the case with the field generator. when they switched it to a science console they could stack for a day, but they were only a fraction as effective.

if you don't think that defense is currently stronger then offense, you don't know how to play. npc's don't count ether, killing them is a trivial exercise, im talking about other players. preventing escorts from stacking 4 consoles would make them useless
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
I have to agree, Escorts already find it hard to kill if they even can kill 1 decent setup crusier. Lowering DPS is not a good idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
that has always been the case with the field generator. when they switched it to a science console they could stack for a day, but they were only a fraction as effective.

if you don't think that defense is currently stronger then offense, you don't know how to play. npc's don't count ether, killing them is a trivial exercise, im talking about other players. preventing escorts from stacking 4 consoles would make them useless
Defense is only "Stronger" because you can rotate heals, etc. And of course, people HAVE to stack heals because of the crazy damage that can be put out. It's a circle. If damage was lowered, people might drop a shield heal to add an extra power for offense, etc. It'd find a new balance.


I think that there's something wrong when an escort can drop out of stealth and blow someone up within 3 seconds because they were engaged with another target and didn't have all of their cooldowns ready to go. It basically forces you to build for this scenario to survive the initial strike, which decreases ship variety.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-05-2012, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
I think that there's something wrong when an escort can drop out of stealth and blow someone up within 3 seconds because they were engaged with another target and didn't have all of their cooldowns ready to go. It basically forces you to build for this scenario to survive the initial strike, which decreases ship variety.
Seems kinda wrong to have full defenses at all times, especially when one is engaged in combat with another target and having one's defenses taxed already.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-05-2012, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
I think that there's something wrong when an escort can drop out of stealth and blow someone up within 3 seconds because they were engaged with another target and didn't have all of their cooldowns ready to go. It basically forces you to build for this scenario to survive the initial strike, which decreases ship variety.
I think this is the design of most MMOs. If it's 2v1, you're going to lose fast. If they nerfed damage or buffed resistance so that you could survive, PvP would degrade into a boring exercise in patience and perseverence.

P.S. If you're complaining that a Klingon ganked you while you were fighting Borg in Kerrat, there are many solutions that won't break the game for everyone else:
a) Don't enter PvP zones
b) Change instances
c) Play at different times
d) Stick with a friend
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-05-2012, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krenlik View Post
Defense is only "Stronger" because you can rotate heals, etc. And of course, people HAVE to stack heals because of the crazy damage that can be put out. It's a circle. If damage was lowered, people might drop a shield heal to add an extra power for offense, etc. It'd find a new balance.


I think that there's something wrong when an escort can drop out of stealth and blow someone up within 3 seconds because they were engaged with another target and didn't have all of their cooldowns ready to go. It basically forces you to build for this scenario to survive the initial strike, which decreases ship variety.
people gravitate to what works, if they reduced damage without reducing defence then every well built tank cruisers would just be invincible without needing to change a thing.

if you do have a problem with getting 1 shoted in 3 seconds you just arent defending yourself correctly. in the defense tab in your character window there is the defense value. this is a very important value, especially to escorts, its at least 50% of their damage mitigating ability.

this value is your evasion score, its dependent on what type of ship your in, how many points you put into the Starship Maneuvers skill, and your flight speed. fly around ESD with that window open and observe how it changes as you adjust your speed. also observe that its a negative number when you arent moveing.

if you are in a dangerous place, like kerat or in a pvp match, you never want to stop moving, your negative score is increasing the chance and severity of critical hits, resulting in you dieing in 3 seconds. i think the approximate max defense score for an escort is 80, cruiser 60. try to always fly at a speed that gives you numbers close to that so you can have a healthy evasion score.


next is shield resistance, always try to run at 2 copies of EPtS1 so you can have a constant shield resistance. the higher your resistance the less damage you take. if EPtS is not running wile you are being shot at, you are loosing a lot more shields then you should be.

always have a tactical team ready to use, if your about to get alpha'ed use TT and any ability that adds shield resistance, transfer shield strength helps too. when TT is cooling down, hit the redistribute all hot key, what ever you have it set too. always be hitting it when your being shot at, when your comfortable doing that try redistributing to specific faceings. this is literally the key to not dieing above all else.

don't use RSP as soon as someone starts shooting, save that for when all your shield facings are depleted after you have been redistributing all during the fight. then hit rsp when you have close to nothing left, and hit redistribute all as fast as you can! more then likely this will completely refill your shields.


all this and wisely using your hull heals is how you defend yourself properly
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aashenfox
Do you think its right that tac consoles are a no-brainer? Everyone simply stacks the damage console of their energy type?
Tactical consoles only add damage, there is no other choice to be made even with your suggestion.
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