Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-04-2012, 06:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
To be clear, this is less of an engine limitation, and more of a genre limitation. Any MMO will have severe difficulty in simultaneously showing you in two places at once. It is far easier in a single player game (i.e. Bridge Commander) to make this transition. The moment other people have to be able to see you one way, while you see yourself another way, it becomes a problem.

There are hacky things that could be done to make it SEEM like you're on your bridge. i.e. UI Overlay border of the edges of a view screen.
We might even be able to do something like this if you all used one or two bridges, with no cusomization. But when you have your own, custom bridge, in a separate map, there's no way to put you over there, and still have you represented in sector/system space at the same time, currently.
Idea: What if we couldn't see other players, the game did the "travel time" math, and we could still access sector space chat.

So for example, I go on to my bridge at ESD and click something to go to DS9. Now the game calculates that my warp speed is 9.9 and that the distance to DS9 is X. Obviously with that info you can calculate time of travel. A little ETA timer pop ups and I can roam around my ship freely, doing whatever I want. When the timer reaches 0 we can return to tactical view, which in this case would be the DS9 system.

If it were also possible, have players be able to access sector space chat while on board their ship. I don't know your engine, so I really don't know the difficulty of doing that. Personally, I'd be willing to give up zone chat if I could travel on my bridge.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-04-2012, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik
Travelling in your interior map would only be worth while if while doing it, other people who are there as well could come along too, imo.
OR if there's something worthwhile to do on one's ship that would most efficeintly be done while en route...

Inviting fellow players aboard should work as it already does...

If the host goes to tactical mode (enters the space instance at a destination, then his guests would automatically return to their own ships. But those ships would be in the same sector as the host.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-04-2012, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
To be clear, this is less of an engine limitation, and more of a genre limitation. Any MMO will have severe difficulty in simultaneously showing you in two places at once. It is far easier in a single player game (i.e. Bridge Commander) to make this transition. The moment other people have to be able to see you one way, while you see yourself another way, it becomes a problem.

There are hacky things that could be done to make it SEEM like you're on your bridge. i.e. UI Overlay border of the edges of a view screen.
We might even be able to do something like this if you all used one or two bridges, with no cusomization. But when you have your own, custom bridge, in a separate map, there's no way to put you over there, and still have you represented in sector/system space at the same time, currently.
Then don't make them custom bridges. Make it work! Fans who want to be immersed in the Star Trek universe aren't going to care and this is something that us members have been asking about even prior to interiors being in the game. I'm shocked that the dev's don't seem to recognise the demand for it. Customsation is not the end-all-be-all and as a huge Trekkie and non-Star Wars fan, I have found that with playing TOR. Nothing is customisable, but wow, I feel completely immersed in the universe. I would rather have that than to be able to change the colour of the chairs on my bridge.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-04-2012, 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradley1701 View Post
Then don't make them custom bridges. Make it work! Fans who want to be immersed in the Star Trek universe aren't going to care and this is something that us members have been asking about even prior to interiors being in the game. I'm shocked that the dev's don't seem to recognise the demand for it. Customsation is not the end-all-be-all and as a huge Trekkie and non-Star Wars fan, I have found that with playing TOR. Nothing is customisable, but wow, I feel completely immersed in the universe. I would rather have that than to be able to change the colour of the chairs on my bridge.
I think you will be surprised by the number of people who disagree with your position.

I know of a LOT of people leaving TOR because there is no customization, and because the so-called immersion only lasts so long as you have not exhausted the pre-scripted content.

an MMO is not a stand-alone game that you "finish." It is by its very nature an on-going experience. If developers wish their customers to fully buy into that experience, then their design MUST allow for players to assume ownership of at least some aspects of the game. This is best achieved through customization.

Customizable interiors. Custom uniforms. Custom character appearance... These all allow the player to OWN his or her character and the spaces directly associated with him/her. I am a life-long Star Trek fan. I have also been an MMO fan for as long as there have been MMOs to be a fan of. STO is a Star Trek MMO, so steps must be taken to reconcile both the Star Trek and the MMO aspect to the players. This is why I can overlook some things that don't fit Star Trek canon like a glove. Some things have to give way to the needs of MMO gameplay. But some things should not be compromised on, which have been, and I will rage against the machine about those things every time.

Some rules can be fudged on and still hold true to Trek. After all, each subsequent Trek series, and some of the movies, tended to ignore the canon of the series and/or movies that came before. In fiction, sometimes the chief rule is, "when canon gets in the way of the story you are currently telling, disregard it." When this is necessary, good writers can explain why pervious canon does not apply. Bad writers just pull an excuse out of their butt, if they even bother to make an excuse at all.

For the record, I would say that the bad Star Trek writers are the ones who assumed what you assume: That the fans won't notice or care. I'm a Star Trek fan. I notice. I care. And I doubt I am alone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-04-2012, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
...snip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY

Run 2 versions of the client. One full and one very limited. The limited one being the bridge. The bridge instance would run without any network connection, instead it would communicate through the main instance via DLL calls. Since you run the bridge on your comp, you could not invite people over.
From server point of view: No extra bandwith needed.
From client point of view: Almost double the minimal system specs (if both instances used, of course).

Anyway, lots of work that just not worth the dev time.

The overlay idea was presented in the April 1st TOS bridge jail. It was actually pretty good, too bad it was taken out. The bridges are uniform, granted there are dozens, but they are not customizable. So you can just add multiple different overlay images and be done with it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-04-2012, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
To be clear, this is less of an engine limitation, and more of a genre limitation. Any MMO will have severe difficulty in simultaneously showing you in two places at once. It is far easier in a single player game (i.e. Bridge Commander) to make this transition. The moment other people have to be able to see you one way, while you see yourself another way, it becomes a problem.

There are hacky things that could be done to make it SEEM like you're on your bridge. i.e. UI Overlay border of the edges of a view screen.
We might even be able to do something like this if you all used one or two bridges, with no cusomization. But when you have your own, custom bridge, in a separate map, there's no way to put you over there, and still have you represented in sector/system space at the same time, currently.
To clarify, Bridge Commander also had a multiplayer mode that allowed the same to be done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-04-2012, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by attilio View Post
Idea: What if we couldn't see other players, the game did the "travel time" math, and we could still access sector space chat.

So for example, I go on to my bridge at ESD and click something to go to DS9. Now the game calculates that my warp speed is 9.9 and that the distance to DS9 is X. Obviously with that info you can calculate time of travel. A little ETA timer pop ups and I can roam around my ship freely, doing whatever I want. When the timer reaches 0 we can return to tactical view, which in this case would be the DS9 system.

If it were also possible, have players be able to access sector space chat while on board their ship. I don't know your engine, so I really don't know the difficulty of doing that. Personally, I'd be willing to give up zone chat if I could travel on my bridge.
This crossed my mind as well, but I have some questions (to the general forum) regarding it...

- How would looking out of a window work, i.e., the lounge. Generic view or real-time activity?
- How would being around other people work, if at all?
- Would we be able to take sector space and miniturize it to a 3D hologram and have it actually function and feel like an astromectrics map like it was supposed to be?
- Will we ever be able to use Foundry to make our own custom ship interior decks? I don't like the current deck layouts.

If all that worked, I wouldn't miss sector space in ship avatar one bit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-04-2012, 09:10 AM
Ok my suggestion (once more):

REMOVE THE SECTOR SPACE and turn all interstellar travel into bridge traveling.

(Wich is basicly how TOR handles that, but I suggestet that here long before I played this one).

Beside the benefit of bridge traveling - and bridge view in general - it would have the majore advantadge of having a galaxy feeling FAR FAR BIGGER.

And it could be the setup for many things.. like better exploration... random encounters.

True, we wouldnt "travel" with others any more.... but honestly when traveling thrue space we... shouldnt.

So technicly, following my suggestion, sector travel would mean:
We go in "system space" (sol system for example) to the bridge. We can plot a course here (Beta Urse sector -> Bajor) and (if thats even necessary) a timer starts running. If it is at zero and we use "return to tactical view" we are in the Bajor "system space".
Easy as that and leaves tones of room for "rappit holes" -> spots to add any kind of content.

A "partly" working viewscreen (changing from a warp animation to an animation of the sytsem we arrive) would add to that.
There could be also little tweaks like.... visiting bridge from a planet letting you arrive in the transporter room and from space to the bridge a once.

It would, all in all, make it a better game.
And we miss nothing, secort space is an anoyance, and with the transwarpfunction less and less used.

Also... well like TOR or not, not actually TRAVELING through a sector map but having a similar space TRAVEL (not combat, this sucks in tor) function does make it better not worst.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-04-2012, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobekeus View Post
Then make the ship a separate character. I mean... SWG pulled it off years ago.
This.

The fix would seem to be having two 'characters' for any one character active while in sector space.
Its just which one *you* are looking at and controlling that differs.

While controlling the ship directly in SS, our character on the bridge is idle, while on the bridge the ship in SS continues on its last course, with its auto pilot destination alterable from the conn.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-04-2012, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
...timer idea snip...
Ok, you set your destination and the timer says 4 mins. Then what?
Stare the screen for 4 mins?
Run around your ship the 6.243.234.786th time?
Change your trophies the 96.457.611 th time?
Alt-Tab and play solitare?

Without anything remotely interesting to do on your ship interior, the timer based bridge travel is kinda useless. At the moment, the sector space has more life than your ship interior. Heck even watching the defragmenter run is more fun then being inside your ship.

As for multicrewing a vehicle in an MMO. WW2 Online pulled it off back around 2001.
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