I assumed the decision to let the coward live was to set him up for some future episode / plot device.

As to whether to warp away or stay to fight... well I guess they were trying to say there were overwhelming odds and as a KDF captain we opted to withdraw with our prize (the Founder).

I agree completely, and what I'm about to say has no bitterness or anger to it. If they can't do the kdf perspective right, don't do it at all. Make the FE Fed only, I'd rather have that than just a repackaging of a Fed storyline with red UI.

even tho i wonderd myself why my borta and carrier would warp away.

I do however think it could be story related.
With us warping out the space battle can turn out in any way cryptic want it to.
Aka. last episode will be the big plot twister.

The founder arrives to ds9, the vorta on ds9 steps down, and then the jam hadar fighter arrives with his fleet to opose them?

we don't know yet

Hi Guy's,

I have to disagree slighty with some of the points, although I do agree that we should have to fight our way out! As this would be more realistic for both factions (KDF want the honour and Glory and the UFP would try to help there comrades on the way out). And like most FE this could be set to the level of the player each time, so no problem there!

The main point I disagree with is the asumption that the non-lethal taging of prisioners is the UFP option, you would really give those peta'Q an honourable death? Why what have they done to deserve it? and the final Klingon prisioner he definately does not deserve an honourable death! Let the coward Rot!

Both options are suitable for both factions depending on how you see your toon, after all you do get the hardcases in UFP who would bat an eyelid at killing the prisoners, confident that any investigation would clear his/her/its name. Or the Klingon commander who grants the honour of dying in personal combat against him/her/it to any one no matter how deserving of that honour they actually are!

Just my opinion though.

Oh and the Map, detail, story and gameplay where great in this FE! Keep up the good work!

It does seem we are being folded into the Federation as a new member one inch at a time. Wiether we wish to be thier new lap dogs or not.
The Options given us are an insult to our fandom and personaly show me that while they may put great effort into the FEs, that effort was not with us in mind as players. Not even as an after thought.

It makes me wonder if the "kill the Ferengi" option in the one before last FE was even a klingon option or if it was there to satisfy those few blood thirsty Feds instead.

But hey, PWE wants a healthy KDF faction.............

After a night's rest, a Red Bull, some coffee, and reading the comments; I thought I would add some to the conversation...

@ Shaddei: your comments made me laugh, but are dead on the mark.

@ Kazzodoom: I'm inclined to side with Dekuscrubby and Warduke on the matter of protocol when it comes to Fed officers, and I'll explain why. The Federation's core belief system is based on law, order, and rights. One of those rights is due process by law; which the inmates have gone through and their sentence was X years in prison, not execution. Remember that the inmates did not cause the jail-break, they are only taking advantage of an opportunity. In addition, if you do a headcount as you do the mission, most of the inmates are unarmed. You would have a hard time convincing a tribunal that lethal force was necessary under the circumstances; and would most likely find yourself in a penal facility yourself (just because ISIS' primary functions were offline does not mean the camera system was down, not to mention it would only take a medical officer with a tricorder to figure out that the inmates had been shot with a phaser set to kill). As a Starfleet officer, you took an oath to uphold the ideals of the Federation, and that includes using only the amount of force needed to end a confrontation (although in the case of the undine at the end, you would most likely have to kill it; since they regenerate so fast that non-lethal force could put you and your team at undue risk).
As to how the Klingons would view the inmates, Klingons don't tend to believe that anyone non-Klingon tends to have much honor (barring individuals that impress them such as Picard, who can demonstrate an understanding of their honor system). On my 6th time through the mission, I noticed I could read the ISIS pads on what these people were in for (the mini-bosses on the upper deck). The Cardassian (a True Way who among other things bombed a civilian facility) and the Lethian (who used telepathy to rob and murder) would be viewed as scum; and I believe Klingons execute people like that. The Gorn, however, was a true warrior of the Empire, waging war on the Federation; and my General most likely would have offered him a spot on my ship (more likely to happen than letting a Jem'Hadar serve on my ship). Criminality is all in the eye of the beholder, and these prisoners were convicted in a Federation court, not the Klingon justice system. Keep in mind, that my General (if captured by the Federation) would be tried and convicted as a war criminal (Espionage, Destruction of Property, and Murder in insane numbers; especially the crew of the DeWitt, which we disabled, boarded, tortured the Captain, and then blew the helpless ship and all hands to space dust upon returning to our own ship); all the while being hailed as a hero of the Empire for the very same acts.

@ Alastor, japfi, Amalin, Roach: As they say, resistance is not futile. With the potential for the Klingon fanbase to grow with the f2p changeover, now is the time to make sure we are heard on this issue. Let us remind Cryptic/PWE that they are in a unique position, even if they don't realize it. Regardless if they want to admit it or not, when it comes to writing Fed content (because of all the movies, series, books, and games released that has material that the fanbase takes as canon) they have far less leeway in what they can alter without upsetting their players. However, when it comes to Klingon material, because it has never been explored and expanded upon in great depth; they have the opportunity to create something grand in "their image" with far more creativity and far less chance of rejection by the community at large (barring totally unlikely scenarios like the Klingons becoming pacifists or something ). While things may not change, if we fall silent, things will most assuredly never change.

@ T-Child: oh, I agree 100% that it's story-related, and I agree with your assessment of what the next episode will probably consist of.. I just think we could have had a fight, and Kar'ukan's ship is damaged in the fight, and he sacrifices the remaining Jem'Hadar ships to slow us down while he returns to DS9. That's what you would expect from the "bad guy" of a story, not the hero running away leaving his allies in the midst of danger (or leaving while there is blood to spill as a Klingon)... something else to point out is if we can see it coming a mile away, it's not really a plot twist.. now, we have to wait til the episode is released before we can truly comment on it, but this is what I predict in a nut-shell. I expect a ground map where we have to rescue Capt. "Rambo" Shon, who was boarded by Jem'Hadar and captured (because that's how they operate), and then a shoot-em-up space battle finale with Kar'ukan, and then everyone else packs up and heads back thru the wormhole, The End. And I must say, if that's what we get, I for one will be very disappointed that a chance to create a spectacular ending will be missed. I give my ideas on one possible scenario below, read on...

Now, maybe I'm jaded because I was a tabletop RPG GM for over 10 years, and creating massive story arcs comes more naturally to me; but I can't help but feel that each episode in their story arcs are written by different people who don't really bother to confirm if what they create meshes with previous story lines, or even the episode previous sometimes. To me, a good story is like a tapestry; building upon itself every time you add a new stitch. Everything has a reason for being, everything is interconnected, everything is justified in it's existance. Online game or not, that should be what the writers should be aiming at before all other considerations, a good story line; and quite often, I feel that they fall short of that mark. So, here's my take on one alternate version of "The 2800" that I feel is more reasonable and justified... enjoy...

Episode One - Second Wave: As a member of MACO/Honor Guard (or a rising star who will most likely be recruited once your faction deems you ready), you are requested to attend the "Year-End Assessment" for the progress that M/HG has made against the Borg in the last year. The Deferi and the Cardassians are also attending, as they wish to offer aid to the cause, in return for all the help they have received. You arrive on DS9, meet the delegates, run some errands, then go to the meeting. In this meeting, there is no need to convince anyone that they need to ally, since this is the alliance already constructed to fight the Borg (and thus no Klingons giving cheesy Federation speeches), and Admiral So-and-so gives the important assessment that the Federation will fall in less than 3 years unless more resources can be funneled into M/HG. The wormhole opens and the advance scout squadrons of the Jem'Hadar fly out. (Cutscene: the torpedo launchers of DS9 roar to life decimating the first wave of fighters, giving ship captains time to beam aboard their vessels and attempt to mount a defense... no need for an unnecessary promenade running battle without your away crew). Once in your ship, an ensuing space battle where you down a few enemy ships and cripple a Jem'Hadar battleship. Command instructs you to board the battleship to see if you can retrieve any information from the ship's computers that might give a clue as to why the Dominion is attacking, fleet composition, etc etc; while Capt. "Rambo" Shon covers you from space (fulfilling a ground mission for the episode). After clearing the hostiles and downloading some encrypted files, you beam back to your ship in time to see 3 Dreadnoughts and many supporting craft exiting the wormhole, and command tells you that you are outmatched and to fall back to Bajor.. episode ends with Loriss' diatribe and the taking of the station.. fade out...

Episode Two - Of Bajor: Of all the episodes, this is the one I liked the most. While I agree that some of the quests were lengthy/tedious, all in all I felt it was a great storytelling device and one of the most "life-like" environments yet. I hope we see it again in future installments. Some tweaks to make the quests more appealing/quicker but not much else to change.

Episode Three - Operation Gamma: [If memory serves me, I believe the Yellowstone went on the market either the week previous to this episode or the week of, and I can't help but feel this was a "give the peeps that bought a shuttlecraft a mission to use it in" kind of mission. Personally, I feel you should have just let everyone "testdrive" a Yellowstone for the mission; you'd probably sell more like that.] Command instructs you to take one of SF's newest shuttles, the Yellowstone, through the wormhole to try to contact the Dominion. This Yellowstone has been outfitted by the Klingons with a small cloaking device which will last approx. 3 minutes to get you past Jem'hadar patrols (the station "battle" was unneeded, and frankly made little sense.. you mean DS9 couldn't detect you were blowing stuff up and send a serious contingent to thrash you?) If you dally or get too close to any ships, the cloak wears off and you have to kill a few fighters on the way, but if you are quick and slick, you can make it with time to spare (an alternate to this would be the cloaking device burns out prematurely, and you have to kill a few ships at the threshold of the wormhole). Upon the other side, the mission proceeds as normal to conclusion. (I felt this mission is very lengthy and boring, since I don't like shuttle missions to begin with.. if you cut out the mandatory first combat with the station and just cut to the Gamma Quad, the mission would be about the right length to be interesting).

More to follow next post...

Episode Four - Facility 4028: [Let me take a moment to point out some huge gaps in logic here. You are lead to believe this is one of the most secure facilities in Fed space. With no outer defenses? Really? A Vorta Heavy Escort and a Klingon Carrier rolls up to the front door without even asking for a hall-pass, and that's secure? You are told by the warden no one knows about this place. Think so? Not even the Tal Shiar or Klingon Intelligence (who make it their business to know stuff like this), or the Undine (who we know have infiltrated SF command on some level)? Riiight. There would have been outer defenses.] You arrive at the Facility and are stopped by a minefield, and hailed by an Assault Cruiser, asking for verification. With confirmation, the minefield is deactivated long enough for you to pass through and you have the discourse with the Warden, Eraun, then beam down. Mission proceeds as normal until the cut-scene with the Founder. The system announces Jem'Hadar have blown through the minefield, and are moving into transporter range. (If the Jem'Hadar can beam in, why didn't they just beam the Founder out instead.. oh wait). A Jem'hadar beams in, slaps a pattern enhancer on the Founder, and both are beamed back out. At the same time, a Viral Matrix virus is planted into ISIS, taking primary systems offline and releasing all the prisoners, which you must get deal with the reactivate ISIS and escape. Kar'ukan leaves a number of ships to finish you should you escape and warps to DS9. You finish the ground mission, beam to your ship, and "Rambo" Shon and 2 ships show up to help you deal with the remaining Jem'Hadar. CLIFFHANGER!! Kar'ukan has the Founder and a head start, what will happen next??

Episode Five - Bravely They Rode: [Opening cut-scene: the Founder is arguing with Kar'ukan and Loriss over continuing the war against the Federation. The alarms go off detecting the Starfleet/Klingon fleet to retake DS9 approaching]. Command decides to launch the attack to retake DS9 since your last-best chance to resolve this peacefully ended with Kar'ukan grabbing the Founder. Both fleets near each other to begin to do battle as you warp into the zone from the Facility. (Now I ask you, have you actually thought about the justification for why the Prophets would have let the 2800 out at this time? At this point, it appears there really isn't. But what would you need to justify such a thing? Ah, but if you tie this back to episode One, you get an answer.) [Cut-scene: Alarms blare on the Federation, Klingon, and Dominion ships... another massive fleet incoming.... the Borg!] Why? Because it could possibly be the greatest military move the Borg could do.. a) they know MACO/Honor Guard work out of DS9, and if you want to wound your enemy, you go for the head; b)this would allow them to take over Cardassia (in a weaken state) and reinforce their efforts in the Deferi System; c) allow them to control this end of the wormhole, and allow them to begin attacking the Dominion from this side of the wormhole; d) and lastly, put them in a position to pincer attack the Federation on 2 fronts. Now we have justification for the 2800 begin released from the wormhole (and a mighty good plot twist.. didn't see that coming, eh? ) The Jem'hadar, The Federation, and the Klingons all attack the massive Borg fleet.. space mission, lots of blowing up stuffs... when the smoke clears, the Borg armada is demolished, the Jem'hadar decidedly fewer in number, and with the realization that to protect the Dominion, they need to head back through the wormhole to prepare for another possible invasion. They return DS9 to Federation custody and leave the quadrant... End Episode...


and that is my idea of a reasonable, believable, justified storyline. Hope you enjoyed.

[quote]Silent is not something I have been in regards to the Empire's prescence ingame.
I agree that they have a great opportunity and need to grasp it firmly and use the whole of material related to the Empire and the Klingon peoples as a source.

Oh no, I never meant it to come off that way.. I can tell you have been very vocal and fighting the good fight. I just meant there are some posters that sound like they are losing steam, not realizing that NOW is the time to fight in earnest. Now is the moment when change has it's best chance to take root.

No worries. No offense was taken.
Many of us are losing steam (I've admitted to as much at times) but there is always something that comes along and slaps us in th face to give us a renewed sense of the fight.
Keep up the Good fight for the Empire!!!