Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-05-2012, 09:41 AM
This is why tholians should remain in their ships and not be on the ground maps in sto.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-05-2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeeterUK View Post
This is why tholians should remain in their ships and not be on the ground maps in sto.
no thanks. im dying to see what they look like in game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-05-2012, 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I'm not sure standard EVA suits would even help us survive in their environments for long (although it would be a reason to use EVA suits in something other than spacewalking missions). However, in order to have Tholians in environments that are livable to other species, they would also need some sort environmental protection suit, which would make them look a little different than the ones we saw in TOS and Enterprise.
In the Star Trek novel 'The Sundered' Sulu transports into a Tholian vessel using an EVA suit. The suit was even damaged in a sword fight with a Tholian, and the exposure to the Tholian environment wasn't instant death. In know, not canon, but then neither is STO.

The Breen also require environmental suits in humanoid "standard" environments, so there's precedent for that as well.
Lt. Commander
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# 14
03-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumibe
In the Star Trek novel 'The Sundered' Sulu transports into a Tholian vessel using an EVA suit. The suit was even damaged in a sword fight with a Tholian, and the exposure to the Tholian environment wasn't instant death. In know, not canon, but then neither is STO.

The Breen also require environmental suits in humanoid "standard" environments, so there's precedent for that as well.
Tholian environment ~200' C. = ~392' F. A compromised suit would expose the wearer to literally the temperatures of an oven, not to mention whatever gas may be in the environment (which from what we've seen so far, looks like their gases may be in some state of ignition). Even if the suit manages to provide some sort of magic techno sealant, the exposed area in that instant would be severely burnt, and depending on the method of seal, the rest of the extremity would be rendered useless and cauterized. If this was Sulu's arm, he'd be in need of an artificial replacement limb ala Luke at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

Although Breen use environmental suits, I don't think their native environments are quite to the same extreme as Tholians. While they may suffer from a form of heat exhaustion if exposed to our environments, that's not the same as being cooked alive if we're exposed to Tholian environments.
Lt. Commander
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# 15
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
Although Breen use environmental suits, I don't think their native environments are quite to the same extreme as Tholians. While they may suffer from a form of heat exhaustion if exposed to our environments, that's not the same as being cooked alive if we're exposed to Tholian environments.
Some soft-canon sources do posit that the Breen's environmental needs are relatively exotic. Given the fact that Kira and Dukat subdued Breen guards and took their suits (assuming they didn't go through all the trouble of shooting them just to find the spare suit locker), and that Worf later says no one knows what Breen look like under their suits, some suggest that Breen can't hold their form at room temperatures. Perhaps their cryogenic bodies sublimate when exposed to our temperatures. Try to unsuit them, and they're just a bunch of steaming goo by the time you get the helmet off.

That said, it could be theoretically easier for a Tholian to heat up the surrounding air than for a Breen to thermally isolate themselves in a refrigeration suit. Sure, it'd take a bunch of energy, but with personal shield generators and all, that's a definite possibility. Some comics, though, have the Tholians using another species for their ground troops in M-class environments.
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# 16
03-05-2012, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenizenVI
Some comics, though, have the Tholians using another species for their ground troops in M-class environments.
Why would Tholians fight over an M-class planet?

They can't live there why not bomb it from orbit and go home to someplace the can live?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-05-2012, 01:30 PM
I was actually disappointed in how the Tholian was represented. I know the model for them probably isn't done yet, but I think it would have been an epic tease to reveal the model THEN, especially since the next weekly series is supposed to deal with the Tholians (from what I've heard).

Don't get me wrong, it was still cool... it was just a lost opportunity, I thought.

And yeah, I've been wondering how you do a weekly series with the Tholians since you can't have any ground combat with them... should be interesting to see what Cryptic does with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-05-2012, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
Tholian environment ~200' C. = ~392' F. A compromised suit would expose the wearer to literally the temperatures of an oven, not to mention whatever gas may be in the environment (which from what we've seen so far, looks like their gases may be in some state of ignition). Even if the suit manages to provide some sort of magic techno sealant, the exposed area in that instant would be severely burnt, and depending on the method of seal, the rest of the extremity would be rendered useless and cauterized. If this was Sulu's arm, he'd be in need of an artificial replacement limb ala Luke at the end of Empire Strikes Back.

Although Breen use environmental suits, I don't think their native environments are quite to the same extreme as Tholians. While they may suffer from a form of heat exhaustion if exposed to our environments, that's not the same as being cooked alive if we're exposed to Tholian environments.
Hmm, you seem to be applying the wrong physics. The salient points are that a Tholian environment is really hot and really noxious. When you start taking numbers thrown around in the show and trying to figure out what should happen at those temperatures is when you've forgotten that starships stop moving when you turn off the engines.

My point is that the IP holders (CBS, Paramount, whoever) have OK'd stories where humans and Tholians inhabit each others environments in EVA suits, and that's the standard that will determine how Cryptic can handle a Tholian plot line.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-05-2012, 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I'm not sure standard EVA suits would even help us survive in their environments for long (although it would be a reason to use EVA suits in something other than spacewalking missions). However, in order to have Tholians in environments that are livable to other species, they would also need some sort environmental protection suit, which would make them look a little different than the ones we saw in TOS and Enterprise.
Hrm, I'd say their technology may have advanced to a point where they have gotten beyond this. I mean, they've always been way ahead of the Federation when it comes to certain fields. Why not a technology that allows them access to a broader spectrum of environments?
Maybe they have a special version of the PSG tech that can somehow maintain a stable environment for them. If the PSG goes down, obviously they'd be in a bit of a spot, but it could still be feasible. Or maybe they've concocted special gene therapies, like the Benzites have, that help mitigate normally intolerable temperatures.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-05-2012, 04:54 PM
Well, if the Seltorians didn't overthrow the Tholian government, there wouldn't have been any Tholian refugees in our part of the galaxy. *nods sagely*
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