Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
This is actually misleading. They named them MACO to have a ENT reference (because they had to put EVERYTHING EVER on the shows in the game, no matter if it makes sense or not ), but in the UFP there are no "soldiers" since Starfleet is not a military. And reintroducing the military (keep in mind ENT was set in pre-federation times when Earth had still a military) would be a huge, huge step backwards.

MACOs in-game are more Starfleet Elite Force officers. The bright armour fits to keep a look rather associated with a police force than a actual military.

Eh, not sure where you got that idea, because it's firmly established in DS9 that Starfleet is a military. Now, to say that Starfleet is not only a military would be true, but saying it's not a military at all would just be wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 12
03-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Would love to see them as a vet reward option for 800 days since it would be the black version of the MACO set (which I would love to set as the color for my elite opt set ;p)
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# 13
03-14-2012, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Eh, not sure where you got that idea, because it's firmly established in DS9 that Starfleet is a military. Now, to say that Starfleet is not only a military would be true, but saying it's not a military at all would just be wrong.
Real-Life/Behind the scenes:

"[Roddenberry] was emphatic that Starfleet was not a military organization but something akin to the Coast Guard (...)" - Nicholas Meyer

"Portraying Starfleet as a military organization flew in the face of everything Star Trek stood for (...)" - Nichelle Nichols

In-Universe:

"Starfleet is not a military organization, its purpose is exploration." - Jean-Luc Picard

Granted, due to the increasing demand on action scenes and the adoption of more succesful sci-fi franchises, especially DS9 shows Starfleet more militaristic than earlier incarnations though it also shows how much STF struggles (and fails) in the military tasks they are confronted with.

I am not against the idea that Starfleet Tactical develops new ships with improved defensive/escort capabilities, I'm not against Elite Forces/Hazard Teams for combat operations but only so far as a police/peacekeeping force would go. But a purely military depiction of Starfleet, camouflage uniforms imitating 21st century uniforms, slaps the basic premise of "Star Trek" in the face so hard that I am absolutely not comfortable with this. And I would really like to see that this spirit survives everything STO throws at us
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-14-2012, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
This is actually misleading. They named them MACO to have a ENT reference (because they had to put EVERYTHING EVER on the shows in the game, no matter if it makes sense or not ), but in the UFP there are no "soldiers" since Starfleet is not a military. And reintroducing the military (keep in mind ENT was set in pre-federation times when Earth had still a military) would be a huge, huge step backwards.

MACOs in-game are more Starfleet Elite Force officers. The bright armour fits to keep a look rather associated with a police force than a actual military.
In the DS9 Episode "The Siege of AR-558" Season 7 episode 8 - it was clearly shown that Starfleet have Marines as these where the guys on the planet with the Jem'hadar and houdini mines. This was a great episode from DS9.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-14-2012, 11:07 AM
@mister_dee ... Well... I wear a uniform, and I can tell you: I would never put on a bright shiny armor...

Orders or no orders.
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# 16
03-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
@mister_dee ... Well... I wear a uniform, and I can tell you: I would never put on a bright shiny armor...

Orders or no orders.
Not even for a parade?

But seriously I agree.
Holocloaks and other gadgets sound good in theory but as with all gadgets they give out or have glitches or they run out of power when the person in question is forced to remain in the field longer than expected.
While it may be possible to ration power for weaons and scanners by using them only sparingly and when it's really needed, with such a gadget you're either protected or not.
And when you're not you'll be stuck in a very exposed situation.
Sometimes low-tech solutions are the most sensible and reliable ones.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-15-2012, 12:28 AM
Off topic, yet on topic, but saying Starfleet isn't the Federation's military is like saying all the (US) National Guard does is rescue people from floods.
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# 18
03-15-2012, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagurazaka77
Off topic, yet on topic, but saying Starfleet isn't the Federation's military is like saying all the (US) National Guard does is rescue people from floods.
As a foreigner I've got to ask, what are they actually doing?
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# 19
03-15-2012, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry110 View Post
In the DS9 Episode "The Siege of AR-558" Season 7 episode 8 - it was clearly shown that Starfleet have Marines as these where the guys on the planet with the Jem'hadar and houdini mines. This was a great episode from DS9.
No. Starfleet has no "marines". The poor guys at AR-558 are regular officers with recently developed ground combat equipment. They are hopelessly overextended, suffering severe combat stress and wouldn't want anything more than to get the hell out of there. Starfleet does not feature a standing army or dedicated ground troops. Something which I do like to see changed in the form of "Hazard Teams" as it makes sense, but no "Space Marines".

@ Kagurazaka77: Starfleet is the UFPs main defensive arm, but it is per definition no military. It is a paramilitary organization, dedicated to exploration and research, humanitarian aid/desaster relief, diplomatic missions/representation AND defense/peacekeeping. They are the military arm of the UFP but so much more that they aren't a military as they are primary fitted and dedicated for peaceful tasks. Starfleet only reacts to military threats and NEVER generates them.

Not featuring 21st century style military camouflage is not so much a matter of logic or functionality but more a question of ethics and spirit.
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# 20
03-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VangarVega
It is a paramilitary organization, dedicated to exploration and research, humanitarian aid/desaster relief, diplomatic missions/representation AND defense/peacekeeping. They are the military arm of the UFP but so much more that they aren't a military as they are primary fitted and dedicated for peaceful tasks. Starfleet only reacts to military threats and NEVER generates them.
The same could be said about the US Navy and the US Coast Guard (which is more military than the US Air Force by a long shot IMHO)
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