Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
03-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwin View Post
Not to burst your bubble but from Cryptic's POV , they want to sell more ships , not less .
The ides that you can upgrade your ship (and use it longer) kind of puts a dent in that plan (as they want you to "have the option" to buy a new shiny on each level) .
Not true. Your assumption is flawed because you're assuming everybody likes staying in the same ship. I'm sure there's a decent portion of the population who, like me, get's bored of flying the same tier 5 ship. If anything, people like me will be switching out ships a lot more since we'll have more of a variety to choose from. The only thing keeping us from having a larger selection of ships to choose from at that point is the size of our ship garage. If we could upgrade that, problem solved.

As for the tier revamp putting a dent in their sales, I doubt it. Eventually, we get bored of the ships we fly around in, and when that happens, we'll buy new c-store ships.

Edit: Think of Suricata's Revamp like this. This isn't exactly how it would be implemented necessarily but an example. Lt. level ships will be able to play at tier 2.5 level; meaning, they will be able to play commander level missions. Lt Comm ships will be able to play at 3.5 level meaning they could still be played at Captain. Captain level ships could still be played at RA level but may not be quite as viable at end-game as VA ships. Once the level cap is raised, Captain level ships could play at RA level (40-49), and the new tier 6 ships would be for the VA rank (50-60).

Even within that new system, +1 ships would still get the edge in pvp, regardless of most ships moving up 1.5 tiers. Plus, I can guarantee you that almost every new ship that comes out will be c-store. That means that people are still going to be buying c-store ships in order to have access to new content. Think of Suricata's revamp as more of a rebalancing of ship stats so you can do higher level PVE missions in the lower tier ships you love so much without getting squashed like a bug.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
03-06-2012, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
- And it is a fact in the majoority of MMOs that the 'evil/bad guy' faction never really obtains player number parity with the 'hero/good guy' faction. It's been that way since EQ. For the KDF lack of content plays a small role, but I think it's more a fact that those who identifiy more with Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, et al - are fringes within a fringe fanbase.
Obviously you never played on any of the open PvP good vs evil servers. The evil population was so overwhelming that it made Fancy the Famous...well, famous. Gogo Good Team!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
03-06-2012, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I GUESS PWE WAS LYING TO US AND CRYPTIC WHEN THEY SAID, " WE WANT A FULL KDF FACTION...."
That was probably before they had a look at the actual numbers.

I can see where Dan is coming from. But his reasoning most likely means little to no new content for the KDF ever, because I just don't see our player numbers rise to Fed levels.
There are so many people playing Fed because ST is, always was and always will be first and foremost about the Federation.
Nothing's gonna change that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
03-06-2012, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
That was probably before they had a look at the actual numbers.

I can see where Dan is coming from. But his reasoning most likely means little to no new content for the KDF ever, because I just don't see our player numbers rise to Fed levels.
There are so many people playing Fed because ST is, always was and always will be first and foremost about the Federation.
Nothing's gonna change that.
This episode was largely full of vapid fanboyism and hard to follow, but at least we got out of it that Stahl plans to continue to ignore the KDF players, so...thanks for that info, I guess...?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
03-06-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
That was probably before they had a look at the actual numbers.

I can see where Dan is coming from. But his reasoning most likely means little to no new content for the KDF ever, because I just don't see our player numbers rise to Fed levels.
There are so many people playing Fed because ST is, always was and always will be first and foremost about the Federation.
Nothing's gonna change that.
Nonsense. I could easily see myself having as many KDF alts as Feds if there was something to play on that side. (And no, FEs don't count, because I'm already chewing through them with my whole star-fleet.) If the KDF could play Cryptic's empty promises no one would play Feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
03-06-2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Not true. Your assumption is flawed because you're assuming everybody likes staying in the same ship.
I don't remember saying that . If anything , wasn't it you who suggested that people might wish to spend more time in their lower tier ships ?

Quote:
the population who like me, get's bored of flying the same tier 5 ship. If anything, people like me will be switching out ships a lot more since we'll have more of a variety to choose from
No one said that you could not switch ships now , the catch was that all endgame ships needed to be purchased .
And I do understand your proposal , I just don't understand how it will make Cryptic money (to off set the loss of purchases of endgame ships for example) .

Quote:
Captain level ships could still be played at RA level but may not be quite as viable at end-game as VA ships. Once the level cap is raised, Captain level ships could play at RA level (40-49)
How is this different from what we have today ?
The Galaxy / Tactical Escort + Refit / are Tier 4 ships that you can play at T4+T5 ,
I understand that you might benefit from extending the life of some of the lower tier ships , but the higher tiers (T4-T5) are pretty much the same (altho the consoles do make them a bit more fancy) .

Add to that the story's you probably heard as well about players leveling up to captain (or even further) in a Connie -- so as it stands , I'm not sure a revamp is needed .

Quote:
Even within that new system, +1 ships would still get the edge in pvp, regardless of most ships moving up 1.5 tiers.
This is another thing I don't quite understand -- simply because I have (thus far) have never purchased a c-store ship strictly for PVP .
If I would have done that , it would have been because said ship had an "I WIN" button . Thus far I don't see the c-store ships as such .
I do play PVP , I do get pwn-ed about 50% of the time , but I have always thought that it was the cleverness of the player (both with equipment and tactics) and his luck with his team that ultimately decided a match .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
03-06-2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tar
Nonsense. I could easily see myself having as many KDF alts as Feds if there was something to play on that side. (And no, FEs don't count, because I'm already chewing through them with my whole star-fleet.) If the KDF could play Cryptic's empty promises no one would play Feds.
Yup, my thoughts exactly. There is blatant TNG federation fanboyism in this game on the part of the devs with the galaxy class being featured so prominently as an end-game ship and with the excelsior retrofit as a tier 5 and then some ship. That's neither good nor bad; just be honest about it when it's your fanboyism that's influencing major game decisions. Then, there's the classic "chicken and egg" argument that the devs always use to justify keeping the Kling PVE side of the game dumbed down. They know a lot of people would play the KDF, but the spreadsheets and their predictions based on those spreadsheets don't justify spending more time on klingon PVE. I call their bluff. I think they just like Feds more than Kling dings, and that's the primary reason why they won't invest more time into KDF PVE. Of course the Kling playerbase numbers will never justify expanding PVE because you've never made a Klingon equivalent to the Federation in terms of Klingon-only missions and FE's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
03-06-2012, 02:34 PM
I have heard they have been trying to take the KDF out of the game for a while and maybe that is all this is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
03-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwin View Post
I don't remember saying that . If anything , wasn't it you who suggested that people might wish to spend more time in their lower tier ships ?

No one said that you could not switch ships now , the catch was that all endgame ships needed to be purchased .
And I do understand your proposal , I just don't understand how it will make Cryptic money (to off set the loss of purchases of endgame ships for example).
Good point. Cryptic will have to limit how high current Captain level ships can be upgraded until the level cap is raised. They would probably let us upgrade them to tier 4.5 for the time being, at least until Tier 5's can be upgraded to tier 6 (VA level 60).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwin View Post
How is this different from what we have today ?
The Galaxy / Tactical Escort + Refit / are Tier 4 ships that you can play at T4+T5 ,
I understand that you might benefit from extending the life of some of the lower tier ships , but the higher tiers (T4-T5) are pretty much the same (altho the consoles do make them a bit more fancy) .

Add to that the story's you probably heard as well about players leveling up to captain (or even further) in a Connie -- so as it stands , I'm not sure a revamp is needed .
Just because you can complete the missions in the connie, doesn't mean a connie is viable in borg encounters, STF's, or in PVP. That's where this argument breaks down. However, an upgraded tier 2.5 connie might still be able to play against tier 3 ships in pvp.

The biggest change a suricata system brings about is Commander level ships such as an Oslo playing at a Captain level, meaning these ships will be able to have 3 aft weapons instead of 2 and more console options.

And, as for tier 4 ships being the same as tier 5 ships, that's just not true. Tier 5 ships tend to have more hull points and more bridge officers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwin View Post
This is another thing I don't quite understand -- simply because I have (thus far) have never purchased a c-store ship strictly for PVP .
If I would have done that , it would have been because said ship had an "I WIN" button . Thus far I don't see the c-store ships as such .
I do play PVP , I do get pwn-ed about 50% of the time , but I have always thought that it was the cleverness of the player (both with equipment and tactics) and his luck with his team that ultimately decided a match.
Tell this to the PVP playerbase. They will buy better ships irregardless of a revamped tier system. It's one of the reasons why Cryptic went to a F2P system. The majority of the revenue will now be coming from c-store purchases such as c-store ships.
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