Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Help - STF Gear Advice
03-12-2012, 01:57 AM
Hello,

I am looking for some help in figuring out what I should be equipping my ship with when trying to do STFs, as well as maximizing my skills to make myself as efficient in the damage dept as I can be.


I'm updating this original post to reflect everything I have learned during the course of this thread, as well as my own research to better reflect where I am currently ,and so people don't have to read multiple pages of replies (unless they want to of course!) and can simply jump right in and reply - Cheers!


Current Ship:

Fleet Escort


Current build:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...php?build=ex_0


Current Weapons:

2x DHC MkII Borg Antiproton
1x DBB MkII Borg Antiproton
1x Quantum Torp

3x MkII Turret Antiproton

Current Parts:

Assimilated Deflector / Engine / Universal Console + MAKO MKII Shield
EPS Flow Regulator, Electroceramic Hull Plating
Emitter Array, Field Generator
4x Tactical Consoles (+antiproton dmg)

I have access to the collectors edition space turret as well - though I don't use it currently. I do not have the red matter (was hoping I would've gotten that in the collectors box but sadly I did not).

Current skills as you can see my build link above:

RF2 BO3 CSV1 Tsp2 + Omega3

My reasoning: I like to have beam / cannon / torps because it gives me 3 skills to volley with simultaneously, with another skill to use in 15seconds so I am not just sitting there for 30seconds waiting for my skills to refresh.

However, during the course of the thread we have been discussing the benefits of Omega vs Beta and how I would try to squeeze beta into my build.

Now, I have explained my reasoning for some of my skill choices, researched from the hard work in the following thread:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=247338

Explains why I don't use Impulse thrusters, maneuvers, targeting systems, etc. However if I were to change my build - the points have to go somewhere, so in one of my proposed updated theory builds, I have invested into maneuvers & targeting systems.


Where I am at right now:


Currently, I am trying to decide which does more damage - my one DBB + BO3 or an extra DHC w/RF2(or 3)

I am also trying to decide if I want to squeeze the Beta debuff into my build. If I did, I think I would need to drop my torpedoes altogether, which - if the above is true (the extra DHC doing more damage) then I would have 4DHC in the front + 3 Turrets in the back.

This would mean my skill rotation would be like this:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=cannononly_0

2x Tactical 1
2x Beta 1
1x Omega 1
CSV 2 + RF3 (or CSV3 + RF2?)

I would then rotate tactical team + the beta debuff every 15seconds while using the cannon fire. My only concern with this is that I only have 1 attack every 15seconds, as opposed to my current 3 attacks (beam / cannon / torp).

Has anyone tested anything like this to see what is viable and what isn't in terms of maximizing damage? I saw a dps calculator on the forums here - but it was posted in like 2010 and seems horribly outdated. Is there a more up to date one possibly?

If it isn't viable and I need to mix it up a little - should I keep the Beam or Torps? I am thinking I am going to need to drop something to try to get beta into my build - and is beta worth all this trouble? lol, to which I could just bite the bullet and drop Omega 3, much as I'd hate to, my build would look like this:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...hp?build=all_0

That 4th tact slot should show as Rapid Fire 3 (it won't save for some reason)

So my rotation would be:

RF3, BO3, Tsp3, CSV1, Beta1 + 2x Tactical 1



At a glance quick comparison - it would be:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...d=cannononly_0

2x Tactical 1
2x Beta 1
1x Omega 1
CSV 2 + RF3 (or CSV3 + RF2?)

vs


http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...hp?build=all_0

2x Tactical 1
1x Beta 1
CSV1 + RF3 + BO3 + Tsp3


The 2nd on paper looks like it would be a monster with all those 3's, definitely win the burst competition, but would the first match it's damage over time with the 2 extra DHC + the constant debuff running?


and this is where I am at currently =)


Cheers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-12-2012, 04:31 AM
You can get MkXII Purple Gear with the purple salvage & tech you have. It's the only way to get it. Spend the salvage on weapons (Polaron's fine. They all do the same damage, just the procs are different) because you can get the following for your Deflector, Shield & Engine:

The "Retro" Borg set (sans the shield) works well with an Escort. You can get the Borg Deflector and Assimilated Subtranswarp Engine from Commander Roxy for 5 EDC each, and the Assimilated Console from the first mission on the Borg front (can't remember the name atm). The deflector, engine and console give you the 3-piece bonus that can trigger shield & hull heals. I wouldn't bother with the Borg Regenerative Shield because it's capacity is poor compared to other end-level shields, and the 4 piece bonus (a shield draining Tractor Beam) isn't great. Use your purple shield tech to get a Mk XII MACO Resilient Shield to go with it.

I've seen a few people use the Jem'Hadar set (Shield, Deflector & Engine) from the current Featured Episodem in Elites over the weekend, and to good effect. That might be worth a try, although I haven't tried it myself.

Couple of other things about your build:

You need a Field Generator. It's a Mk XI Rare Science console that increases your shield capacity by 35%. You can craft it, buy it on the exchange from someone who's crafted it, or buy it from the Dilithium store (for 11k dilithium). That will make a huge difference. There is no ship or build in the game that shouldn't run one of them, imo. Take out the Emitter Array to make room.

I've always found 1 EPS console's enough. When you get the Borg console, drop one of them to make room for it.

I think you should drop the aft Tricobalt and replace it with another Polaron Turret. Escorts are about having you enemy in front of you to do maximum damage. Covering the rear is a secondary concern. I'd also consider taking out the DBB and replacing it with another DHC, and then replace the Beam Overload in your BOff skills with another Cannon Rapid Fire.

On your skills, Driver Coil does nothing in combat and I don't think Starship Batteries is worth it. Get rid of them. You also should put points into Starship Targetting systems (increased accuracy so less misses) and Starship Manouvres (increases your defense stats which make the enemy more likely to miss you). Cut the Projectile weapons Specialisation down to 6-7 to free up the points for those if you have to.

You might want to drop your Engineering Team. I know it's a good hull heal, but it shares a cooldown with your tactical teams, which are more important for the shield redistribution. Another EPtS is the only thing I can think of that'd be good there off the top of my head.

One last thing, you do heal your ship injuries with components after you're destroyed, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-12-2012, 04:57 AM
Use the Purple Shield Tech to get you a Mk XII MACO or Omega Shield.

Use the Purple Salvage to upgrade your forward weapons and turrets to Mk XII [Borg] weapons.
Also I would seriously consider changing to either Disruptors, Antiprotons or Phasers.
They are of better use than Polarons in an Escort.

Get the Assimilated Borg Console and the +35% Shield Console.

Consider using the Green Engine Tech to get a Mk X Engine and 20 EDCs to get a Mk X Deflector, these will give you the 2-piece set bonus.
OR you can purchase Borg Engine and Deflector for a total of 10 EDCs, and with the Console get the 3-piece bonus (hull & shield regeneration).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-12-2012, 05:16 AM
Thanks for the reply:


I will try to reply to each of your points =)


- Thanks for suggesting the 3 piece borg set + Mako Shield - I will hit up DS9 this morning and grab those!
- I will also check out the Mako Shield

- Not to sure about that Jem'Hadar set - but I think I got some of em - and wouldn't be terribly difficult to replay to test the full set out. i'll look into that.


- Now, I will try to explain a little about why I spent my skill points the way I did...

> The Thrusters & Targetting systems, are not worth spending points on, as can be seen in this thread:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=247338

The bonuses are far too small to really be worth investing in at this point. That could change and I have a respec left in case that happens in the future. However, for the current time, they aren't worth putting points into.

> Starship Batteries, again I refer you to that above thread. The extra 20 second duration for 9k points isn't bad, and honestly you need to invest some points into SOMETHING to open up the other tiers.

> Driver Coil - I fully understand it serves no purpose in combat - but I had 6k left to spend and anything I could have put those 6pts into would have such a tiny bonus that it was pretty much a moot point (like a fraction of a point bonus), So I figured I haven't done all the episodes and what not - why not pop the 6pts into driver coil and at least it will speed up that. Again, I do have a respec left should stuff change in the future and I really need that extra 6k space xp back.



As for my weapon set up:


> I used to run 3x DHC + 1 Torp in the back, however, I felt that swapping a Beam Overload 3 for a Rapid Fire 2 was WELL WORTH IT. My BO3 can crit extremely well and I can also fire it + rapid fire at the same time, unlike 2x Rapid Fire which I can only fire one at a time. Also, a RF2 + BO3, usually means that any shield facing I hit is GONE, which lines up that hull for a nice torp attack.

That's my thinking anyways. I toyed with the idea of doing away with torps altogether and just running 4 DHCs or 2x DHC and 2x DBB - but I just found that the extra punch of quantum torps was worth the slot.


> As for my aft weapons... I did until yesterday run 3x turrets on my rear. I took the turret off after reading about some power issues other people were having and decided since I was so heavily spec'd into torp damage that I'd just slap on a tri-cobalt and run with it. This evening I popped a tact cube in elite for 61k damage with that Tricobalt which I thought was pretty nice =)


> The engineering team - I know ... I really didn't know what else to stick there to be honest..It does give a nice instant hull heal when I need it, in case miracle worker is down - or I simply can't wait for hazard to heal me. I suppose I can test out another EPtS and see how it works, not like I don't have hundreds of thousands of skill xp for my boffs just lying around collecting dust lol =)


> finally thanks for letting me know about that field generator! - I will defintely try to pick one up / craft one ASAP. That will make a HUGE difference.


Thanks so much for the reply and I hope others that read this will have some good tips as well =) I recently purchased the collectors edition of the game so I got 900CP to spend too - was debating on buying a ship but not sure how much better it is over what I am flying now.


Cheers!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-12-2012, 07:30 AM
attack pattern beta! get one! beta 2 is good enough! do the 4028 facility mission and claim a torpedo spread 3 insted of that spread 2. i only run with one torpedo ability, because it can be preloaded...therefore after fireing the skill sometimes is ready anyway.

1 EPS console is enough, you even skilled that thing, so you really dont need it anyway.

driver coil, out! and plz skill Maneuvers and targeting systems...defense is king, no matter how low, especially in escorts. and targeting systems...well basically if it gave me only 1% more dmg i would get it. simply because there is nothing else to skill that gives +DMG. So in an ecort and a tactical Officer you should skill all dmg abilities.

generally try to put as little as possible in the first tier. so batteries to 6, and attack pattern too.

as for that engineering team...put in a EPtW, just for the 5 sec boost before you fire that BO, dont mind the CD on EPtS afterwards.

for the tokens, get a XII maco shield and the rest retro borg set. all weapons should be XII [borg], they are like rare XII for all other enemys...better than any purple XI

35% max shield console is a must have

Quote:
> As for my aft weapons... I did until yesterday run 3x turrets on my rear. I took the turret off after reading about some power issues other people were having and decided since I was so heavily spec'd into torp damage that I'd just slap on a tri-cobalt and run with it. This evening I popped a tact cube in elite for 61k damage with that Tricobalt which I thought was pretty nice =)
if some people have power issues doesnt mean you have! i run 3 turrets with no issues, but if you like tricobalt sooooo much (even if the overall dps of a turrets is higher, and the borg use fire at will heavyly) then stay with that setup. not a big deal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-12-2012, 07:36 AM
Ok - update and sorry Maverick - your post didn't show up before!? - very odd.


Here is what I did tonight:


Purchased all new weapons:

2x DHC Antiprotion XII (Borg)
1x DBB Antiprotion XII (Borg)

3x Turret XII (Borg) (only using 2 + trico atm though - have just in case I need it)

I also got the the following gear changes:

Swapped 1 EPS for Universal Borg Console
+1 Borg Engine / Deflector for 3 piece bonus

+ MAKO Shield MKII

-- REALLY liking these borg parts =) - I AM SO FAST NOW lol.

I also bought 4x Antiproton Tact Consoles (just 22%'s - the others were far too expensive for an extra couple of % - I can wait, I am currently (at max) only 24% dmg off - thats if I had 4 purples at 28% each, which cost like 50million a pop so - not too worried about it hehe.

Oh and I almost forgot - I bought the 35% shield boost (expensive! ouch) and swapped out my bio monitor for it, keeping the shield emitter - figure bonuses to shields = better than a small crew heal on a tiny crew =)


I also changed 1 of my torpedo spreads out for a CSV 1, so I have now:

RF2, BO3, CSV1, Tor Spread 2 as my attack rotation + 1 Trico Mine Launcher


Thanks for the help guys =)


Cheers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-12-2012, 07:55 AM
Lol people keep replying while I am replying =)

> Why beta? Omega 3 is so much better imho. Unless your saying use Beta + Omega - if so,, I have no idea what to drop to even accomplish that.

> I have a spare boff that can teach me torpedo spread 3, and I was tempted - but if I take that, I need to swap rapid fire 2 to rapid fire 1 to go from torpedo spread 2 to torpedo spread 3 - is the difference really that vast? The wiki doesn't say exactly what the difference is so, I'd really like to hear your input please.

> As for skills:

The investment of points into manuv is this:

0points: 50 power level = 52.5%; 100 powerlevel = 55.0%
6 points: 50 power level = 60.0%; 100 powerlevel = 67.7%
9 points: 50 powerlevel = 70.0%; 100 power level = 70.0%

So right now I am in the 0% category at 52.5 and 55 respectively - unbuffed.

So I would need to spend between 12,000 to 18,000 for an extra 12.7 to 15% extra defense - at 50% to maximum speed - which I almost never am, I am usually flying in reverse to keep everything in my death cone. So this skill does NOTHING for me, except maybe when I am fighting a tact cube at full speed, flying into it, guns a blazing.

So that is my justification for that - as for targeting systems...

0 points: base bonus accuracy: 0.0%
6 points: base bonus accuracy 12.7%
9 points: base bonus accuracy: 15.0%


I again, would need to spend 12,000 to 18,000 skill points to gain a 12-15% increase in accuracy, that I don't think I really need since I almost never miss anyways - unless I am firing from maximum range, which I pretty much never do.

So, again, imho - wasted skill points.


If I am wrong in either of these regards and someone can back it up, I'd be more than happy to listen =) - but as of right now, I see no reason to spec either of those.

Current build - http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...build=engiFX_0

*Edit -


P.s. - I suppose if I REALLY needed to - I could drop driver coil + 3pts from batteries & hull repair which would give me exactly enough points to get 6 pts (12.7%) for targeting systems.

I did find out something interesting though, driver coil does have a bonus in combat - when you are dropping from full impulse to attack mode - the more points you have in driver coil = the more points you have in weapon system (meaning less recharge time to full weapon power).

Which is a pretty nice bonus for 6k points I think.

I kept forgetting to mention that, sorry =)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-12-2012, 09:48 AM
Quote:
> Why beta? Omega 3 is so much better imho. Unless your saying use Beta + Omega - if so,, I have no idea what to drop to even accomplish that.
beta is an aoe debuff, that lowers the targets resistance...the whole grp profits in that way. Alos the spread hits much more powerfull, if you scatter volley the targets before firing the spread. Keep the omega, but just to break tractors and to run away, or to deal some dmg when beta is on cooldown.

10% more def is worth it, i can guarentee that. so the points spent are not lost. and the targeting systems skill is also worth it, as it clearly states the overflow of acc becomes critH and critD

so if you dont skill those 2, even though the amount is not alot, you miss evasion and extra dmg.

and the first complain by the OP was that he died alot on elite...so evasion is something he needs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-12-2012, 11:39 AM
I AM the OP lol =)

I ran a few elites today after the changes and its like night and day - just eating stuff and having no problems staying alive.

Tactical cubes can still be troublesome - but much more manageable now.


- As for your comments Raudi:


> I explained very well I think, why that defense bonus does nothing for me. 10% or 200% wouldn't matter because I am not moving fast enough to get the bonus =). Honestly I think it is more for cruisers that are always flying around in circles broad side attacking, rather than escorts.

Which I find a little amusing that the DPS guys stay still and the tanks are moving - you'd think it would be the other way around.

Regardless .... wasted points.


> The targeting system - like I said I could possibly justify 6pts into it - only if someone could give me data to support the change.

You stated that the overflow becomes Crit H/D - I am aware of that. However, What is my current accuracy? I have no idea - how much do I need to overflow? can I even overflow? and if I do overflow, how much of a bonus am I getting?

Honestly, I don't think it would be very much. If I was a pure tactical glass cannon and I was trying to squeeze every single ounce of damage I possibly could out of my build - maybe I might do it, but I'm an engineer, not a tactical, and like I said, I just can't justify it - at least not at this time =)


> Finally, Beta - Yes, beta is a debuff - I understand it helps the group =) - However you never answered my question on what you would swap out in order to get beta in.


I have currently:

> Tactical Team 1 x2
> Scatter Volley 1, Torpedo Spread 2
> Beam Overload 3, Rapid Fire 2
> Omega 3

Now looking at beta here: http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Attack_Pattern_Beta

I can see I can trade one of those skills for a 5 second debuff. If I was in a hardcore STF fleet that was super ridiculously co-ordinated, then maybe I could sacrifice something, but with the number of tactical slots I currently have - there is simply no room for a 5 second debuff.

I could maybe squeeze it in on a tactical retrofit - but I don't have that so.

Maybe I am overlooking something and you'd care to elaborate and help me see it?


Cheers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-12-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalpimpin
Now looking at beta here: http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Attack_Pattern_Beta

I can see I can trade one of those skills for a 5 second debuff. If I was in a hardcore STF fleet that was super ridiculously co-ordinated, then maybe I could sacrifice something, but with the number of tactical slots I currently have - there is simply no room for a 5 second debuff.

I could maybe squeeze it in on a tactical retrofit - but I don't have that so.

Maybe I am overlooking something and you'd care to elaborate and help me see it?


Cheers.
It's a 15 second debuff: you apply the debuff every time you fire a weapon for the 10 seconds it's up. It doesn't stack with itself, but you can keep a constant debuff on your target fairly easily.
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