Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-07-2012, 06:43 AM
You are correct that most of those posts about hull tanking are fairly old. Hull tanking used to be a fairly valid tactic, but since the skill changes it's no where near as effective as it used to be.

You're better off with a hybrid tank which concentrates on boosting the resistance of both your hull and shield.

Before the changes I just used:
EngTeam3 x 2, HE1/2, SIF3

and had no issues with survivability. After the changes I had to change my tactics and add a number of skills.

Currently I'm using:
EPtS2 x 2, EngTeam3 x2, SIF3, HE1, TSS2.

Almost every one of those skills boosts provides a heal/resistance combo, and on elite STFs it's still a tough job tanking.

If nothing else, try to take EPtS along with your hull tank skills. The resistance/heal bonuses make a huge difference in your survivability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-07-2012, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWackyWombat View Post
You are correct that most of those posts about hull tanking are fairly old. Hull tanking used to be a fairly valid tactic, but since the skill changes it's no where near as effective as it used to be.
I do not follow as between the Doff and skill changes hull tanking is way more effective perhaps even twice as good as it used to be. Why would you say it’s less effective?

EDIT:
The Trick to hull tanking is to use maintenance Doff’s. Those Doff allow 1 Eng team to cycles very 15seconds and as a nice side effect boost all other hull heal skills healing amounts.

I just use EngTeam3 x1, SIF3x1. There is no need for a 2nd EngTeam3 as you get no benefit from it when useing doff's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-07-2012, 01:36 PM
Also get some good armor. If you want to hull tank, fill your Engineering Consoles with armor, and get a Biofunction Moniter for your sci console. Hull tanking is probably best for a tac since tacs don't have that shield ability that Engineers do.

I would personally recommend shield tanking. Get the borg set with the MACO shield. EPtS 3x2, Science Team 1, TSS 2. AuxtoStruc 3. Your shields will never drop, and you will be able to tank an incredible amount of damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-09-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_1999
It would be immensely appreciated, especially as I'll probably never get my aux far above 50, if even that far.

As-is I'm probably going to either have a combo of Auxiliary to SIF 3 and 2, with EPtS 3 and 2, or EPtS 3 x 2, Auxiliary to SIF 3, and Auxiliary to SIF 1.
I may be wrong as I tried the 2 AUX2SIF approach a long time ago, but IIRC the CD and shared CD of AUX2SIF are both 15 secs, so it'd be a waste to have 2 copies of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-09-2012, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Collier
I may be wrong as I tried the 2 AUX2SIF approach a long time ago, but IIRC the CD and shared CD of AUX2SIF are both 15 secs, so it'd be a waste to have 2 copies of it.
Not really. When you click one aux to sif the other goes to half timer of 7.5 seconds. Thus you can constantly hull heal a lot of damage very quickly. You're better off with engineering team 3 and aux to sif 3 of course.



Above in the thread I see mentions of armor stacking and such... again, it does not work.

The cap is 75% resists. Its hard cap for shield and hull. You are facing torpedoes that can potentially crit on you for 14000 damage on a normal shot and up to 50,000+ on a critical hit. You always have multiple ships firing on you... the incoming damage to hull is too great for 2 hull heals to keep up with.

Cruisers tank through shields because shield power at 100 setting grants 35% resists..then stack Emg pwr to shield resists + massive regen boost from 125 power + a big instant shield heal on top of that. The shields take half damage from torpedoes and energy weapons do much lower damage than a torpedo per hit. Even with this a shield of 14000 is dropped down to almost nothing in a short couple of volleys and that is why you must keep rebalancing shields and turning so it hits a different shield.

Hulls dont have anything equivalent to that. Its only got a 3X bigger HP pool, no natural regen to speak of and no means to rotate damage around as hull is just the hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-09-2012, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
Not really. When you click one aux to sif the other goes to half timer of 7.5 seconds. Thus you can constantly hull heal a lot of damage very quickly. You're better off with engineering team 3 and aux to sif 3 of course.
.
Ummmm.... no. All abilities have a 15 second global cool down that's hard coded. No matter what cool down reduction you have, you can never use an ability faster then once ever 15 seconds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-09-2012, 11:27 AM
I agree with others who say that shield/hull hybrid tanking is the way to go. As a Joined Trill Eng, I prefer a tank/DPS hybrid for elite STFs in my Excelsior, but my AC tank build is like this:

Eng Cmdr: EP2W1, RSP1 (or ES1), ET3, AtSIF3
Eng Lt. Cmdr: EP2W1, EPtS2, EPtS3
Sci Lt: PH1, HE2
Tact Lt.: THY1, THY2 (or Spread 1)
Tact En: TT1 (or BFAW1 if non-Borg)

Set Pieces: MACO Shields, Borg Engine, MACO Deflector (maybe Borg Deflector if the 3-piece bonus is worth more to you than the MACO Deflector's better tank stats)
Set Bonuses: MACO 2-piece (for Magnetoplasma Relays), Borg 2-piece (for Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer)

Eng Consoles: Neutronium Alloy x2, EPS, SIF
Sci Consoles: Field Generator, Borg Assimilated Console
Tact: Quantum Zero Point x2, AP Mag Reg x1 (I sometimes use the Antimatter Spread and/or Transwarp Computer console here)

Fore Weaps: 2 quantum torps, 2 AP beam arrays
Aft Weaps: 4 AP beam arrays

DOffs: 2x Purple MA Eng (get ET down to 15 sec CD), 2x Purple Projectile Weapons (reduce CD on torps), 1x Purple Shield Distribution (shield regen/heal chance on dmg with Brace for Impact)

Skills (tank-related): 9s in Starship Hull Repair, Starship Shield Emitters, Structural Integrity, Starship Shield Systems, Starship Warp Core Potential, Starship Shield Performance; 6s in Starship Warp Core Efficiency, Starship Auxiliary Performance; ~4-6 for Starship Hull Plating, Starship Armor Reinforcements.

Traits: Elusive, Joined Symbiote, Techie, and whatever the required Joined Trill ground trait is.

Power Levels (before bonuses): 50, 100, 25, 25 / switch to 25, 50, 25, 100 when using Aux skills like A2SIF3 and HE2.

Other Points:
- Rotate the EP2x skills, with 4 of them, you can keep them up all the time.
- A little tough to keep the optimal firing arcs on target to take advantage of torps as often as they recharge, but I prefer to use them for quick spikes for when the enemy shields are down with preloading the HYs and getting in as many torp fires before I have to break attack.
- Can't use ET3/TT1 perfectly in-sync (even/especially with the MA Engs bringing ET3 to only a 15 second CD), but without TSS and Transporter DOff, TT is practically a must against Borg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-10-2012, 06:02 AM
Attack pattern delta, polarize hull, aux to sif, aux to ID, Subspace field modulator from the devidian mission, armor consoles, speccing into hull plating, inertial dampeners, resilient shields will improve your hull tanking. Hull tanking isnt necessarily flying around with no shields but keeping your ship together between shield heals and cool downs. Very handy in STFs where the borg have a thing for shield drains and cutting beams
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-11-2012, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
Above in the thread I see mentions of armor stacking and such... again, it does not work.
OK then. In the initial post I mentioned putting neutronium armor in as a stacking resist.

In terms of the resist I've managed to coax it up to 39.2% for all damage types with three blue Mk XI consoles.

Is this math flawed? I realized that dumping armor consoles into your ship is not a panacea, but I thought it would do at least SOME good. Is it somehow ignoring the strengthening provided by the armor? Would I be better served swapping one or more of these consoles out in hopes of better protection with something else?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_1999
It would be immensely appreciated, especially as I'll probably never get my aux far above 50, if even that far.

As-is I'm probably going to either have a combo of Auxiliary to SIF 3 and 2, with EPtS 3 and 2, or EPtS 3 x 2, Auxiliary to SIF 3, and Auxiliary to SIF 1.
Uhh... only 1 copy of Aux2SIF is necessary... it's global cooldown is close to it's normal cooldown... you can chain it with just 1 copy.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:56 PM.