Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-06-2012, 11:59 PM

That was the longest 15 minutes absolutely NOTHING that I've heard in a quite a while.

"Playing 'em close to the chest" is an understatement in this case.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-07-2012, 12:44 AM
Yeah they had the hands at 10 and 2 for a few episodes and then someone jerked the wheel back to a question. Did I really waste such and such minutes of time in my life I can never get back... for Nothing LOL.

Yep it was like time travel and one to add to that link LOL. The part where it was stated "learned my lesson" and then recently in a post "KDF content is being worked on" all goes to show the lesson was not learned and I will give em some credit for giving a read between the lines of not bothering with the game any more since majority of my characters are KDF... Nothing coming out for them... I'll take my less than 18% self elsewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-07-2012, 01:22 AM
I gotta question for dan the man..

consider the following

Make a Star Trek MMO and they will come..

...and they did... inspite of it being a very unfinished game.. in spite of it not being ready to launch but having to launch anyway... in spite of knowing by launch day that there just wasn't that much to STO..

Dan... we..the users, were under the impression that, and still are under the impression that the KDF get fleshed out essentially starting as soon as the current FE is finished...

Iff you don't get the KDF stuff done any hope of getting some decent PvP action going is dead in the water because there wont be a KDF player base. while most players do not take part in PvP it does generate tremendous buzz because.. its exciting..

For once.. ignore the projections.. listen to the Veteran Gamers.. I'm a veteran gamer and I've been a gamer longer then you've been alive! Right now all STO is is still a single player c0-op game.

Decisions were made over a year ago that pretty much killed faction based PvP.. and now once again fed players wanting to take part in PvP now fall into two groups.. a very very small part of the Fed player base thats knows how to handle FvK pvp... and everyone else.. And I'm seeing once again "KDF is OP" when the hard core of the KDF players know it most certainly is not OP... its just those screaming it the loudest don't know HOW to pvP in this game because they've not built the skills yet. And honstly with out low level PvP they are not going to GET THE SKILLS.

I heard you say on STOked "its the same old problem, what comes first? The chicken or the egg?"

In this case, to make it work.. you need the Egg, and you need to grow the chicken from the egg.
Compare this game to a car engine.. say a V-8.. ttheres only so much tune up you can do to make the engine run smooth when its only firing on 5 out of 8 cylinders.. those missing 3 are made up of 2 being KDF mission content, and 1 being PvP content...

........... And thats just to get it running smooothly.........

Ignore the whole Star Trek thing.. Just look at it as an MMO for a moment. It's not a one faction MMO.. It's a two faction MMO that has hopes down the road of being a 3,4,5,or 6 faction MMO. But as of yet its not even a full two faction MMO. Once you have the KDF good, then the possibilities open up... but two years of rush work MUST be corrected.. well, more like one year of first flush and a second year of corporate ineptitude. Your demographic numbers are lying to you.. the reason they are lying to you is your studio has spent most of the last two years ignoring the fact that the KDF was not a finished faction...

and making excuses not to finish it. STO as a single facion co-op play MMO might work.. but from my own experiences playing Featured Episodes in team play honestly..Cryptic hasn't yet to even get that right.
I really am sorry but I have yet to play an FE with a full team of 5 players where there has not been bug after bug, after bug. Players not getting credit for completed accolades, mission progression for one or more team members being borked. Quite simply no matter how wonderfull the missions are they simply do not recieve sufficient testing before release. They go out buggy as hell. Untill your team has one whole hell of a lot more experience doing this, and learning to think of the missions first as a single play experience, and then second as a multiplayer expirience this is going to keep happeneing.

I want STO to succeed, but this game is by far one of the buggiest MMO's I have ever played. I hear the term "Casual MMO" not to put to much of an emphisis on it, but what laser brain came up with that?

To gamers.. there is no such animal.. only a non gamer could have ever have come up with such a patently silly notion. Even the board game to online computer game crowd such as the folks over at Days of Wonder with thier game "Ticket to Ride", and "Memior 44" relize that while the game might be "casual" the players are not.

Really honestly.. Casual? Are you kidding? You honestly think youo can make a buck of off casual gamers in the current economy? You might make extra money off of them, but your bread and butter is still going to be the subscribers. They're going to be the ones that keep the bills paid and the servers up.....

..... and the paychecks covered.... no body works for free...

I've said in other posts "I will help" and others have said the same thing... but none of us are going to do it entirely for free.. we want something out of it.. we want a playable story driven, multi faction MMO with meaningfull (within the context of the game) story/lore based PVP based on Star Trek.

If you don't have the resources inside your company then surprise.. you have a tremendous amount of talent out here that doesn't absolutly need a pay check from you. Recognition.. perhapes. But many have jobs that they might not quite be willing to risk for a shot in the game industry. Doesn't mean they can't build missions if they have the right tools for the job. Don't have sufficent internal Beta testers to get this stuff tested before going live with it? Dude.. Email me a limited NDA... I'll do just to see that what ends up in front of everyone is playable! But if I do that then I get to give input that IS considered for content development or I won't do it.

Want someone to pitch to foundry authors? I'll do it.
You got storyline people?.. write a story.. one page.. give it to a foundry author and tell them.. "Make a mission of this story, you got 30 days." Make it clear what must be in the story and that it must have contiguaty with current content. Make the process as simple as possible.. the actuall execution will be sufficiently difficult without adding to it. Don't DEBATE IT.. DO IT!

The players of STO are not quite like the other MMO gamers out there. Average age is certainly higher... expectations are greater.. and there is talent left right and center..

How many MMO's with as small a user base as STO have have 3 internet radio stations, and lets see.. how many fan podcasts.. STOked, Foundry Files, Tribbles in Esctasy.. and thats 3 out of what 20 or so?
STO has what..maybe 10,000 hard core regular plays and another 30-40,000 beyond that.. just a ball park figure mind you..and a generous one from what I see online in game compared to how many million for World of War craft, TOR, ****, etc.... There is more fan based buzz per player in STO then any other MMO existing. Because of the nature of the games internal economy issues with RMT's messing with the game econ are microscopic... not that they haven't tried...*giggle* the poor stinking sods!

Grow the Game.. grow the game logically, rationally, and with a long view in mind and you will keep this player base, and have this MMO for years to come. But please.. you must flesh the core factions of the game to relitive parity. Thats is the game foundation. Right now that foundation is not stable, and untill you have the KDF fleshed its not going to be stable. KDF Numbers will never be the eaqual of the Federation faction. Thats a given, and really in many ways its a non issue. But KDF numbers have to come up, and without the content they will NOT come up. From there it get real simple.. Without the KDF numbers there is no meanigfull PvP.. Without the PvP buzz and the revenue it will generate there is no growth...

In John M Ford's Trek Novel "The Final Reflection".. a fellow named Krenn...(whom I take my user name from) explains to the other lead character,a Federation ambasador to Qo'nos that the Klingons view the universe as two states (paraphrasing heavily here.. go read "The Final Reflection" it'll give your folks some great insight into the KDF mindset) Growing, and Dying.

Khomerex, and Khesterex. I want STO to be the former not the later. And from out here in game I can tell you that you MUST create the basis for growth of the KDF. Without it, STO simply cannot adequatly grow. It becomes Khesterex. That which dies.

Right now the game has a had a burst of users, but actuall game content is still fairly low. Create the KDF content quickly and you will give players something to do, this in turn will give YOU and the dev team the time it NEEDS to create even more content. Most of us out here realize its not that simple in execution, but most of us out here realize that the Plan itself MUST be made that simple. The devil is in the details and thats what you guys and gals get paid the big bucks for.

There has been many suggestions about utilizing PGC...Do it. Its minimal resources out of pocket to do. Just a little setup to make it work. The foundry needs inprovement but what some folks have done with it is nothing short of amazing and that has been stated by your own staff! I do belive you have recieved numerous written invations to take advantage of it.. a certain russian pharse comes to mind about a cow.. but it basicly means get the lead out, get on with it, make it happen.

The longer you take the more irritated the KDF players get. And we dont just play KDF...Ya'lls design remember? A lot of the current situation concerning the KDF goes right on Daniel Stal's desk during his previous time as EP. It's still a problem, and its going to do nothing but get bigger untill its delt with. And if its not dealt with it could very easlity turrn into a game killer. ..I'm of sufficent age that I can say I have seen it before.

Deal with it now while you still can. And you should have delt with it before launcheing Free to Play.

Khemaraa Iron Hand sends.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-07-2012, 01:34 AM
I want them to flesh out KDF so we can get a Romulan faction. I would love to be part of rebuilding the RSE. There is tons of potential in that story line.

If you build it they will come. You cant look at metrics to determine popularity of KDF or Future factions, because they can only look at the past and the current state of things and cant predict the future. As you said Dan, chicken and egg.

You can play it safe and go all FED but think of all the extra character slots, and other C-store items you could sell with 3 full factions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-07-2012, 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by Ithaqua

That was the longest 15 minutes absolutely NOTHING that I've heard in a quite a while.

"Playing 'em close to the chest" is an understatement in this case.

hehehehhe nope you are wrong go lisen to priority ones podcast interview of him its even longer and says alot of the same thing, hehehehehe politician talk where he realy says nothing but atleast when you dont realy promise much or when people cant accuse you of lieing lol.
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Posts: 120
# 16
03-07-2012, 04:46 AM
Insufficient players on the KDF side to justify additional work...this is potentially a catch 22. If the KDF was more fleshed out, I'd play it more often. Others likely feel the same way. /shrug
Lt. Commander
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# 17
03-07-2012, 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by Zeuxidemus
Pretty much the gist I got for KDF content there is they have never justified finishing the faction so one hand they say they are spending the year *fleshing it out* on the other with that interview what he is stating is they haven't even started because they haven't got the justification for the dev time to create this for us "18%". I am bilingual I can read and write in corporation and english .
I am amused that the "numbers game" was said to not be the way to decide if something should be done in STO, in an earlier interview (Priority One I think) yet is one of the key reasons why the KDF is not getting any parity (yet again - The Pattern continues) this year and for the foreseable future.

It is awesome that we have gotten Ships and consoles to beef up our small vessels of the line choices, a Flagship (both free and via purchase) and other assorted devices to allow for a bit more gameplay. Its great that we got a New First City and an Academy to enjoy (even if the other acruitements of RPing a KDF toon are still somewhat lackluster) and a assortment of some of the funnest PvE missions in the game at one time (14 actually - if you count the Path of the Warrior), not to mention the plethora of "Kill These/Go here" mission with no story or often a location and that we KDF players are included (if even as an after thought) in every FE that has been released so far to the game.

Unfortunately all that substance is for naught if the faction itself has no meat upon its bones in the way of a meaningful rise throught the ranks that sets the background from start (Ensign) to finish (level Cap) via a storyline that gives a reason for the hostility with the feds, a reason why the KDF hunts for the Undine (even against the resistance of the leaders of the federation) across the quadrant, our expansion into new areas of space, the inclusion of the Orion Syndicate, The acceptance of the Gorn Hegomony and the rush of alien races into the KDF and how it has changed the Empire of the past into to something new, a little different, but much stronger than it was in times past.

PvE missions will give this missing meaning to playing the KDF and help draw more of the new player and the merely curiuos.
Its a sad sad thing when some of the playerbase attempts an aspect of the game only to quit becuase the tediuos nature of the grind is too much to overcome and they lapse back into the bigger bluer half of the game.

We do not need much in the way of storyline and honestly we could supply it ourselves via the Foundry (and it would work if the Foundry had any measure of decent XP to allow leveling) but that shouldn't be the task of teh playerbase becuase we are not here to do the job the job that Cryptic bid for and won. We are here to enjoy what they create and the stories they wish to tell.
Sadly though we are still stuck as the servitor faction to the federation and have little choice but to stand just outside the campfires light while the Devs tell stories to the feds, like some glowing eyed beast waiting to devour any morsel that drops our way by happenstance. Hungry and yet still waiting on our creators like some mishapen creature from the mind of Doctor Moreau.

We could go the route of being a low PvE faction with a high PvP focus and do quite well at that as many KDF players really just want to be the bad guy and pounce upon the feds in battle.
We could go that route except for the fact that its been tried before with a boost to our leveling speed and reward payouts via PvP that resulted in an outcry from the feds of unfairness (Why must the KDF be better at PvP they said) and led to a nerfing of even that simple attempt. We could say that the New Ships and Console where a new attempt at giving the KDF a PvP slant to gameplay to compensate for thier lack of content and backstory, except that too has come under fire for many broken reasons and only enlarged the once old KDF is OP belief giving proof to the fact that any PvP boost would only been seen as aunfair by the Federation due to its upsetting thier gameplay.

What a sad way to introduce new players to a part of your overall game and to show them how little it matters in your eyes becuase your hands are too busy seeking payment instead of sponsoring creation and growth.
Its time to make concrete plans for the KDF and leave the rhetoric of half truths behind so the faction can be finished and the game can move on past this ugly blemish on its face to new and possibly better things and make STo the game it should be instead of the could be. Excuses no longer hold water on why things are still the way they are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-07-2012, 05:31 AM

SFCIII-Nemesis tried that too. Shrink the established well supported factions to make
dev team cycle quicker for movie tie in. Then create a back story to support the reasons
and create anther ALT Trekverse of their own design.

I saw one of my old SFC ALPHA BETA tester fleet last month only carry over left from a mixed SFC II
fleet with 273 reg board members...

WE ran the Romulan Empire three General Wars Campaigns in SFC II
using the vast map of SFB Cyberboard chits and Dynaverse SFC Orion Pirates .
we had vast House and Provincial territories. On a Map that showed the actual position of Star Consultations Planetary Systems from TREK Lore as they are on a night sky you can see y renting a telescope from your library.

Because we had ranks beyond VA-1 LTG it was easy to split up a vast fleet and be a major force on Star League Ladder competitions and KOTH . We had an Order of Battle list for all Galactic Empires and Fleet areas outlined on a map so could easily take RP possession of an area and establish fleet recruit training.

The fact that you could have this much player control in a Trek game TEN + years ago or SWG player controlled construction of persistent structures so long ago .. it seams the shadow of Fran Joseph DEtail and Star Fleet Battles will haunt small DEV TM s without team size to deliver

Take a Hex map a large board game like Avalon Hill 3d Reich wooden ships and iron men look at Gary Grigsby's War in PAC 7 + mp sheets and how many unit chits it had
Then History 101 of the Roman Empire Order of Battle and Political sub-divisions for Epic Star Empire Creations.

Senshi Bat
Sage of the Pan Galactic Consortium
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# 19
03-07-2012, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Sagison View Post
Insufficient players on the KDF side to justify additional work...this is potentially a catch 22. If the KDF was more fleshed out, I'd play it more often. Others likely feel the same way. /shrug
I would start to play my lil KDF toon again if they would add more content.

They dont make content because KDF has few players, but why should players play KDF if it has almost no content compared to FED side.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-07-2012, 09:22 AM
Just kill the KDF faction already if you have no intentions to work on it Cryptic....

....wonder why not as many are playing the KDF...oh that's right, next to nothing content and the pushing back of when to make a KDF character.....

A) Make KDF from start like Fed with a real tutorial
B) Flesh out actual content, not c-store junk for KDF
C) Watch numbers begin to grow on KDF side
D) Ask yourself why it took 2+ years to not give effort

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