Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-09-2012, 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
I am not talking about 'staying there' to re-kill them. When the instance resets 3 min after victory, it isn't 'respawn after death.' Simply being at the same place after respawn isn't 'camping the spawn point.'

KDF don't seem to engage the borg, but that is a different problem, namely insufficient KDF in relation to Feds resulting in little incentive to compete in that manner.

It feels like you are rationalizing this. There are definate problems (particularly the overall shortage of KDF), but that isn't solved by playing spoiler.
I'm not quite following what you're saying in regard to my trying to rationalize "this" - as in, what "this" actually is.

There is no reason to engage the Borg and the Borg will not engage you. Simply scan the nodes and destroy the hulks.

The KDF generally do have insufficient numbers to complete the "mission" before the Feds do. In the interim though, while the Feds are completing the "mission" - the KDF can work on their mission to kill Starfleet. Given the reluctance for Feds to queue FvK because of the P2W console changes, for most it is the easiest way to complete the mission while also farming Dilithium.

Speaking of KDF missions, it's while some KDF will respawn into that spawn camp without complaint - they need to die 25 times for a mission.

It's odd that you would mention playing spoiler, since the zone itself is a competitive zone. Were it functioning correctly, the people that do the most on the winning side are rewarded. It would be a race to see which side could complete the "mission" first. It's broken though. So that's relatively moot.

It's a 4 min countdown after either side completes it - but it's rare to wait that time. You could easily complete another two Ker'rat instances for the trio required in that time by jumping instances.

Which brings up another issue, if "your" side did not tag at least a single objective - you do not get the counter to see how much time is left before the reset. It can be extremely tedious to do on KDF because of this compared to Fed. There's more luck involved in hopping instances because you simply do not know how much time is left.

I'm still trying to figure out what you're suggesting that I'm trying to rationalize... admittedly getting sidetracked with the miasma of issues that Ker'rat entails.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-09-2012, 01:50 AM
While there is technically no need o engage the borg, they are set up so that scanning the encryption bases usually means having to take down anything from a probe to a few spheres. If someone (from either side) in the instance isn't good at maneuvering (or is is just griefing), there may be cubes to deal with too.

What version are you in where the borg will not engage you? They have a relatively small agro radius, but if you get close enough, they will engage.

You are basicly justifying ganking Feds engaged with the borg on the grounds that PvP is generally broken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-09-2012, 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
While there is technically no need o engage the borg, they are set up so that scanning the encryption bases usually means having to take down anything from a probe to a few spheres. If someone (from either side) in the instance isn't good at maneuvering (or is is just griefing), there may be cubes to deal with too.

What version are you in where the borg will not engage you? They have a relatively small agro radius, but if you get close enough, they will engage.

You are basicly justifying ganking Feds engaged with the borg on the grounds that PvP is generally broken.
Ker'rat is broken down into initial instances based on levels of 10. At that "ten" level, the Borg will be +4. However, if you change instance; the Borg will be -X (where X is your level) - they're basically level 0 Borg. Hence, why you may see people refer to -50 Borg. Instead of them being +4, they are -50 when you change instances at level 50. You can fly right into them without them aggroing. They will only attack if attacked.

It is a PvP zone. There is no need to try to justify either side killing the other. If you do not want to be killed by another player, do not go into a PvP zone. It's that simple.

The only things to complain about in Ker'rat are the various things broken in Ker'rat.

The restart spawn.
The lack of a timer for both sides.
The -50 (-X) Borg.
Borg being able to attack while stuck in an object where you cannot attack them.
Stretch Cubes.
Rubberbanding Probes and Spheres.
Encryption nodes sometimes not showing after a restart until after a delay.
Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Complaining that PvP took place in a PvP zone is kind of silly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-09-2012, 02:25 AM
One day I'm sure they will get around to fixing some of the bugs in Ker'rat. I don't think just removing it in the meantime is the solution though. Just don't go if it ruffles your feathers that much.

And remember, pew before mission. Pew to disrupt the mission. You can't have Open PvP without Pew. Ker'rat is Open PvP (well, the closest we have anyway).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-09-2012, 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgrins View Post
There is nouthing wrong with Ker'rat here. It's all the FTP Bums we now have in the game that are completely useless.
FTP bums? Does your $15 a month suddenly make you a dynamite player? What does FTP have to do with any of this? Do these people lack gaming skills because they don't pay a monthly subscription to something they can access, legitimately, for free? I spend money here. Doesn't give me greater or lesser skill. Doesn't change how I approach each situation. It's not about money, kiddo. Not at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-09-2012, 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgrins View Post
There is nouthing wrong with Ker'rat here. It's all the FTP Bums we now have in the game that are completely useless.
Thanks to the so-called "FTP" Bums, the instances are finally getting full.
But Ker'rat was always what it is. Including the bugs, pretty much. It's an amazing potpourrie of never solved problems and bugs in this game.

And yet - it can still be a great ton of fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-09-2012, 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Thanks to the so-called "FTP" Bums, the instances are finally getting full.
But Ker'rat was always what it is. Including the bugs, pretty much. It's an amazing potpourrie of never solved problems and bugs in this game.

And yet - it can still be a great ton of fun.
Ker'rat is a lot of fun. I'm glad the game went F2P, because it means my friends can join in and we can all have fun as a fleet! The social areas, sector space, PvP and PvE missions are packed! It's awesome, because I remember last year at some point, sector space was a dead zone, people and ships were few and far between, chat was getting a bit quieter, and it almost felt like you were just playing NPCs and nothing else. I was a bit worried that STO was going down. So F2P was a wonderful thing to happen, and Ker'rat's a lot more fun when a whole bunch of ships (on both sides) show up!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-09-2012, 03:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
Ker'rat is broken down into initial instances based on levels of 10. At that "ten" level, the Borg will be +4. However, if you change instance; the Borg will be -X (where X is your level) - they're basically level 0 Borg. Hence, why you may see people refer to -50 Borg. Instead of them being +4, they are -50 when you change instances at level 50. You can fly right into them without them aggroing. They will only attack if attacked.

It is a PvP zone. There is no need to try to justify either side killing the other. If you do not want to be killed by another player, do not go into a PvP zone. It's that simple.

The only things to complain about in Ker'rat are the various things broken in Ker'rat.

The restart spawn.
The lack of a timer for both sides.
The -50 (-X) Borg.
Borg being able to attack while stuck in an object where you cannot attack them.
Stretch Cubes.
Rubberbanding Probes and Spheres.
Encryption nodes sometimes not showing after a restart until after a delay.
Etc, etc, etc, etc.

Complaining that PvP took place in a PvP zone is kind of silly.
I'll try this one more time. I have no problems with PvP happening in PvP zones (including this one). I do have a problem with anyone using cheap tactics such as waiting until the enemy is busy with PvE and ganking them for sport.

The problems you mention are all issues that should be dealt with, as well as the relative lack of KDF players.

Engaging in PvP is fair game. Making use of limitations in scenario design and turning them into PvP weapons is just pathetic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
03-09-2012, 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
I'll try this one more time. I have no problems with PvP happening in PvP zones (including this one). I do have a problem with anyone using cheap tactics such as waiting until the enemy is busy with PvE and ganking them for sport.

The problems you mention are all issues that should be dealt with, as well as the relative lack of KDF players.

Engaging in PvP is fair game. Making use of limitations in scenario design and turning them into PvP weapons is just pathetic.
The thing is, that's what Ker'rat's about. That's why it has a Starfleet and KDF element in it. You're fighting one another while each side is trying to complete the mission. I was just in a Ker'rat map where it was 3 Feds vs. 2 KDF. It was fun to watch for a moment, but I decided to start working on the mission. By the time I got finished, the fight was still going on.

Edited to Add:

There was one time where it was 6 Fed ships, and 5 KDF ships. It was an all out battle! We kept fighting it out while completing the mission. Well, while I was attaching a sphere, a BOP comes up and starts attacking me! So what do I do? Well, amidst the firefight, I reinforced my shields, hit fire at will, and hit every Borg cube nearby. They started attacking! So I grabbed the BOP, who was still whipping around me, with my borg tractor beam, and I hit full power to engines. I brought him right within firing range of those Borg cubes, they started attacking him as well as me, but before the cube could hit me with a tractor beam, I hit Aux2Eng and got myself out of there. I looked back and he was being rained down upon by 4 cubes, one of them a tactical cube. He went 'splode a few seconds later. That's what's fun about it!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
03-09-2012, 04:05 AM
Reasons to kill the opposing player in Ker'rat:
  1. Prevent them from completing the "mission"
  2. Complete KDF PvP missions

Those are mission/"mission" related.

It could be a case of seeing somebody that killed you previously and you want revenge.

Claiming that somebody was simply killing for sport would be difficult to prove.

During the 4 minute countdown, obviously any killing would not be to prevent them from completing the "mission" - since it has already been completed.

Feds do not have the KDF PvP missions, so that would never be a reason for a Fed to kill. As for the KDF, you could not know if they were trying to complete the mission or not.

So basically, the only people you could even try to judge would be Feds in the final four minutes - depending on your view of revenge, if you simply consider that sport as well, then the only people that could be assumed to be killing for sport in Ker'rat would be Feds in the final four minutes.
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