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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...5&postcount=72


Science version:

Sensor Analysis
Console - Universal - Work Bees (pets that follow heals you or your ally ship, clears eng debuffs, cannot be targetted but can be destroyed w/ aoe, each bee can heal once)

Console Upgrades: 2 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 4 Science


Tactical version:

3 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
Console - Universal - Aquarius Escort (comes equipped with Quad Phaser Cannons, Phaser Turrets, Quantum Torpedoes, and a Point Defense System)

Engineer version:

Console Upgrades: 2 Tactical, 5 Engineering, 3 Science
Console - Universal - Chevron Separation (you gain a boost to weapons power and increased speed and maneuverability)


Ok.. lets break this down.

Engineer gets 1 more slot to put an armor piece (or whatever) and ship separation...which as we know is the same garbage that the Galaxy gets: hull HP gets lowered upon separation and the 'pet' does as much damage as the science captain photonic fleet. Read: Not worth mentioning.

Benefits: Visual candy, +some hull resists at best with the extra armor slot.

Science gets sensor analysis and healing pets that heal only ONCE and can be destroyed by aoe fire. an extra science console.. oh joy! I can put.. umm.. I can put... another shield emitter? heck no other sci console does it any good.

Benefits: sensor analysis. Healing pets that heal only once and are killed by AOE are useless since all this game involves spam of AOE attacks by npcs and players. Besides.. heals only once? WTF?

Tactical ... it gets an extra tactical console. that is a DIRECT +26% boost of damage to its weapons. It gets a pet that has quantum torpedoes, quad cannons and other goodies. Now, if any of you use the klingon birds of prey carrier pets you will know just how hard those little photon torpedoes hit.. now picture a quantum. On top of that quad cannons (our bops use regular cannons).

Benefit: massive damage increase to a ship that already can tank ungodly well... and it gets an alpha strike high damage pet ship.


So.. really Cryptic.... this cake has but one name on it: DPS. Why did you bother making a science and engineering version when its benefits are minimal compared to the tac ship?

So tired of this DPS-centric design. ><
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-09-2012, 06:47 PM
I guess it depends on what you consider "cake." I was thinking of taking of Engineering version, myself. The Saucer Sep looks cool, gives the ship more firepower, and probably isn't as temporary as the Aux Craft pet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-09-2012, 06:48 PM
*sigh*

The Workbees are not pets to be shot - unlike the Varanus' repair drones. They're more like the visual excuse for a space equivalent of the Science Captain ground power "Nanite Health Monitors". I don't remember ever being able to shoot that buff off of someone. That's a console - one you can transfer on any other version you can get your hands on - same as its other Odyssey variant sister consoles.

Each cruiser version pretty much gets 1 extra console for its specialization. It's as simple as that. The Engineering one seems like a pretty sweet deal - engineering consoles are generally useful. Science consoles apparently suffer some stigma, but the Devs sweetened the deal with Sensor Analysis... which actually can get pretty awesome. The Tactical version has... just the extra tactical slot which could grant a damage bonus (barring diminishing returns).

I can't relate with you. I find the Engineering and Tactical bonus consoles to have equal value. The fact that you can possibly have 5 engineering consoles seems pretty major as well. But, from where I stand, getting a science console AND sensor analysis is pretty much the best deal available. That's what I plan to be going for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-09-2012, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post
*sigh*

The Workbees are not pets to be shot - unlike the Varanus' repair drones.
"...cannot be targetted but can be destroyed w/ aoe"

Translation: aoe shots fired at you kill your one-time-heal drones. Check your combat logs to see just how often you get hit by aoe attacks.

Quote:
Each cruiser version pretty much gets 1 extra console for its specialization. It's as simple as that. The Engineering one seems like a pretty sweet deal - engineering consoles are generally useful. Science consoles apparently suffer some stigma, but the Devs sweetened the deal with Sensor Analysis... which actually can get pretty awesome. The Tactical version has... just the extra tactical slot which could grant a damage bonus (barring diminishing returns).
Sensor analysis is a minor benefit compared to a potential increase in weapon damage the tac console gives. Diminishing returns? hardly. even a 10% damage increase on an 8-beam cruiser is significant. Saucer separation is just visual fluff.. the galaxy separation already tells you how little benefit it is compared to the loss of hull from the separation (it does very little damage).

Quote:
I can't relate with you. I find the Engineering and Tactical bonus consoles to have equal value. The fact that you can possibly have 5 engineering consoles seems pretty major as well. But, from where I stand, getting a science console AND sensor analysis is pretty much the best deal available. That's what I plan to be going for.
Perhaps you don't see it the way I do. Think of it this way: between the three 'hulls' of the odyssey... and given if you have the consoles of all 3 and need to choose which hull to put them on. Which do you choose?

The extra science console and sensor analysis?
The extra engineer console?
The extra tactical console?

All I'm sayins is a couple of weeks after they're released you will see tactical odyssey hulls with saucer separation, escort pets and repair drones since that is the only ship configuration that performs. DPS is all that matters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-09-2012, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
All I'm sayins is a couple of weeks after they're released you will see tactical odyssey hulls with saucer separation, escort pets and repair drones since that is the only ship configuration that performs. DPS is all that matters.
Of course I would wonder how many people are going to be willing to pay $60.00 to $75.00 to get that combination? If DPS is all that matters a Cruiser, let alone a Tac Odyssey, is not going to be anyone's first choice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-09-2012, 07:20 PM
I would pay for all three ships for the consoles... but I would put it into the science cruiser for the sensor analysis personally. Skyfaller has a point though... this is turning into a DPS game. and there are a LOT of min/maxer's out there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelsanderz
I would pay for all three ships for the consoles... but I would put it into the science cruiser for the sensor analysis personally. Skyfaller has a point though... this is turning into a DPS game. and there are a LOT of min/maxer's out there.
It's only turning into a DPS game because that's how the STFs are currently configured. Most of the rest of the PvE doesn't care about DPS. A few tweaks to the STFs and DPS won't be the only thing that matters in them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-09-2012, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
It's only turning into a DPS game because that's how the STFs are currently configured. Most of the rest of the PvE doesn't care about DPS. A few tweaks to the STFs and DPS won't be the only thing that matters in them.
Actually, dps is what all end game content is based on and will be based on. It takes less than a week to hit 50 so really it IS the focus of the game.

the tweaks to stf are not really the solution. the tweaks need to come to the sci abilities and ships to be as good inside their roles as escorts are at dps. Right now we see the 'tweaks' that are being tried to make stf's tougher: 1-shot kill-you borg ships, insane resists and swarming of borg ships, etc. All in all things that only make the game harder if you dont kill them fast enough... translation: DPS focus gets stronger in the attempt to make the stf more challenging.

These new odysseys are a good example of that mentality. An engineering ship (cruiser) is being turned into a quasi-escort with just that extra console and alpha strike pet. the engineer and science versions on the other hand are given abilities that do nothing useful against the end-game npc's.

Imagine if...

the Tac odyssey had been a cruiser that had weapon-oriented benefits like a -2 per gun power cost and native subsystem targeting attack (tier 1). instead of the escort pet and tac console slot. That gives the CRUISER an edge in combat with tactical-based advantages.

the sci odyssey had been given sensor analysis and its power bonuses switched to +shield +aux. That gives the sci odyssey a good advantage when using science based abilities.

the engineering odyssey had been given the saucer separation with the 'pet' saucer having extend shields and hull healing as its ability that would be a great engineer-based, above-the standard odyssey benefit.

but this... crappy fluff sci and engineer and massive benefit for the tac version... cripes. its just sad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
Actually, dps is what all end game content is based on and will be based on. It takes less than a week to hit 50 so really it IS the focus of the game.

the tweaks to stf are not really the solution. the tweaks need to come to the sci abilities and ships to be as good inside their roles as escorts are at dps. Right now we see the 'tweaks' that are being tried to make stf's tougher: 1-shot kill-you borg ships, insane resists and swarming of borg ships, etc. All in all things that only make the game harder if you dont kill them fast enough... translation: DPS focus gets stronger in the attempt to make the stf more challenging.

These new odysseys are a good example of that mentality. An engineering ship (cruiser) is being turned into a quasi-escort with just that extra console and alpha strike pet. the engineer and science versions on the other hand are given abilities that do nothing useful against the end-game npc's.

Imagine if...

the Tac odyssey had been a cruiser that had weapon-oriented benefits like a -2 per gun power cost and native subsystem targeting attack (tier 1). instead of the escort pet and tac console slot. That gives the CRUISER an edge in combat with tactical-based advantages.

the sci odyssey had been given sensor analysis and its power bonuses switched to +shield +aux. That gives the sci odyssey a good advantage when using science based abilities.

the engineering odyssey had been given the saucer separation with the 'pet' saucer having extend shields and hull healing as its ability that would be a great engineer-based, above-the standard odyssey benefit.

but this... crappy fluff sci and engineer and massive benefit for the tac version... cripes. its just sad.

You was not here when the game first started. Sci powers for the most part was way to strong and yes they needed nered but not to where they are now. They need to find some middle ground for Sci powers. yes there are some good ones but they ships over all do lack DPS bc of only 6 weapons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-09-2012, 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...5&postcount=72
Tactical ... it gets an extra tactical console. that is a DIRECT +26% boost of damage to its weapons. It gets a pet that has quantum torpedoes, quad cannons and other goodies. Now, if any of you use the klingon birds of prey carrier pets you will know just how hard those little photon torpedoes hit.. now picture a quantum. On top of that quad cannons (our bops use regular cannons).
Pointless complaint since that is YOUR choice to use regular cannons, BoP's can be fitted with Quad disruptors as mine is...
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