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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-10-2012, 07:09 AM
I've been in some brilliant Elite STF's where I tanked the cube and DPS killed it. We got all bonuses not so much because we had a perfect group set up, but because nobody did something stupid. That being said I've been in a 5 escort group where we all blow up constantly due to lack of a tank, never did anything stupid and lost the optional.

That being said I'm an Engineer and I fly a tanking Sovreign, and I am liking the look of the Tac Oddy. I doubt I'd put all the consoles into it but. If there was some sort of buy an Oddy and get cheaper consoles it could work. But I kinda want the Seperation, infact with Seperation I would like it work more like a combat mode where the saucer didn't follow you it ran to a safe distance and reattached later.

Oh and WTH are Disruptor Autocannons? Sounds bad arse and Klingony.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-10-2012, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starsvoid
I'm not gonna agree that the Tac version is the best until I see the cooldown times and fragility/efficacy of the Aquarius. Given the prevalence of AOE, the Aquarius may be the most stupid buff of the three.
I think you may be misunderstanding the core of my point. Its not about the consoles since you can carry them over to any of the other odyssey versions. Its the hull itself. Regardless of the efficacy of the aquarius escort, the tactical odyssey hull has a massive advantage over the others simply because it directly boosts weapon damage by a significant amount. The other hulls get minimum benefit for their engineering and science consoles. Literally the engineering console best benefit it can possibly give is a slight increase in armor resists; the best benefit the sci console can possibly provide is a minimum boost to shield heals and/or science ability stat. Neither compares to a direct increase in the damage the odyssey's 8 weapon slots receive from one console. There's a reason why escorts do so much more damage than the cruisers when both have the same number of forward weapon slots: the tac damage boosting consoles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint01
Bortasqu' War Cruiser

Console - Universal - HoH'SuS Bird-of-Prey (Quad Disruptor Cannons, Disruptor Turrets, Transphasic Torpedoes and Subspace Jump)


Tossing this out there, since you didn't mention the Klink version. They get the same thing, but more of a tact bent. Frankly I think the Flagship tac options suck.
Quad disruptors..ok. Transphasic torpedo... LOL. That right there is a massive nerf vs the aquarius. Its an npc torpedo... go do a breen mission in elite difficulty and see how little damage their transphasic torps do. In any case, the whole thing of giving a cruiser an escort pet is just plain silly. That should be a carrier ship add on.

Quote:
My question is thus: if I shell out mony for the tac cruiser, can I use just the aux craft as an Escort in the same manner as my Defiant?
I don't follow the question. The devs have said that you deploy the escort pet and it follows and fights your targets thats it. You cannot fly it or command it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-10-2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross82
You was not here when the game first started. Sci powers for the most part was way to strong and yes they needed nered but not to where they are now. They need to find some middle ground for Sci powers. yes there are some good ones but they ships over all do lack DPS bc of only 6 weapons.
This is true. At start a sci ship slapping you with a sensor jam, viral matrix to bring your system down and a gravity well eating your hull made for a very bad day
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-10-2012, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
I think you may be misunderstanding the core of my point. Its not about the consoles since you can carry them over to any of the other odyssey versions. Its the hull itself. Regardless of the efficacy of the aquarius escort, the tactical odyssey hull has a massive advantage over the others simply because it directly boosts weapon damage by a significant amount. The other hulls get minimum benefit for their engineering and science consoles. Literally the engineering console best benefit it can possibly give is a slight increase in armor resists; the best benefit the sci console can possibly provide is a minimum boost to shield heals and/or science ability stat. Neither compares to a direct increase in the damage the odyssey's 8 weapon slots receive from one console. There's a reason why escorts do so much more damage than the cruisers when both have the same number of forward weapon slots: the tac damage boosting consoles.




Quad disruptors..ok. Transphasic torpedo... LOL. That right there is a massive nerf vs the aquarius. Its an npc torpedo... go do a breen mission in elite difficulty and see how little damage their transphasic torps do. In any case, the whole thing of giving a cruiser an escort pet is just plain silly. That should be a carrier ship add on.



I don't follow the question. The devs have said that you deploy the escort pet and it follows and fights your targets thats it. You cannot fly it or command it.
If you can move those consoles to non odyssey ships, it gets scary. Even limited to cruisers.. Imagine that pet on an excelsior...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-10-2012, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetteguy904
If you can move those consoles to non odyssey ships[...]
You can't.

regards,
Mr. J
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-11-2012, 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
I currently subscribe to 7 MMOs and play 3-5 FTP MMOs regularly. Over the last decade I have literally played well over 150 different MMOs.

DPS might be what the end-game content requires in THIS game, but it's not the only choices available. Right now the STFs are grindfests because that's what Gozer seems to enjoy.
If Gozer wanted to make these a "grind fest" i do belive that he can do it. There is a reason for the optional content in the STF's. It's to make you run through the STF as fast as you can. If not then Gozer could just add more mobs to the STF to just make you have to kill it all. Gate every room so you have to clear all content before moving on. your version of grind fest is not my version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
But there are many, many different games where pure DPS will get you nowhere if you don't have other types of Classes to help. There's a reason why the Trinity became the norm - because every Class should have a purpose in the game.

Right now STO only focuses on DPS. 5 Escorts can go into an STF and win, while 5 Cruisers or 5 Science Vessels can't. That's a design choice, not a necessity. And it's a design choice that can be altered; not by making Science Vessels and Cruisers more powerful but by altering the simplistic idea that only DPS matters in STFs.
If every class should have a role then your example of 5 cruiser and 5 science is as the Borg say "irrelevant". The STF's work just fine with all classes that know what they are doing. 5 scorts can do the pure dps burn, so what? you can get it done in a mixed group of classes and ship types. enjoy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-11-2012, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_Decatur
If every class should have a role then your example of 5 cruiser and 5 science is as the Borg say "irrelevant". The STF's work just fine with all classes that know what they are doing. 5 scorts can do the pure dps burn, so what? you can get it done in a mixed group of classes and ship types. enjoy.
You really can't get it done in a mixed group. Try 3 cruisers, 1 sci, and 1 escort and see what happens. You'll get no where fast. And that's the whole point. When something is DPS-centric everything else is a very distant second. When I see people who used Cruisers and Science Vessels for 50 levels switch into Escorts to do the STFs, that tells me something. If it's not telling you anything you're probably already in an Escort and carrying the load for the weaker ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-11-2012, 09:22 PM
I don't share many of the concerns voiced here. The ships have a slant towards their general intent and any class of captain can fly them. It wouldn't even surprise me if the special abilities ended up being interchangeable between the 3 variants (assuming one was to buy all of them...).

I do actually agree with the latter point that DPS is so important to STO's endgame. Engineering and Science are excellent classes that are great (if not too powerful in PvP) at what they do. Some people are even good enough to squeeze out numbers that put escorts to shame. But the underlying problem here is that the NPCs and their AI are so awful you don't need massive healing (like from a Cruiser) or crowd control and debuffs (as from a Science ship).

For example, SNB makes a world of difference in PvP but in PvE it's virtually worthless because AI opponents have such a small ability set and rarely use them at the appropriate times (unless the script gets lucky).

This is a flaw that I hope is addressed some day (take a number, they have plenty to address... some day, lol).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
I don't share many of the concerns voiced here. The ships have a slant towards their general intent and any class of captain can fly them. It wouldn't even surprise me if the special abilities ended up being interchangeable between the 3 variants (assuming one was to buy all of them...).

I do actually agree with the latter point that DPS is so important to STO's endgame. Engineering and Science are excellent classes that are great (if not too powerful in PvP) at what they do. Some people are even good enough to squeeze out numbers that put escorts to shame. But the underlying problem here is that the NPCs and their AI are so awful you don't need massive healing (like from a Cruiser) or crowd control and debuffs (as from a Science ship).

For example, SNB makes a world of difference in PvP but in PvE it's virtually worthless because AI opponents have such a small ability set and rarely use them at the appropriate times (unless the script gets lucky).

This is a flaw that I hope is addressed some day (take a number, they have plenty to address... some day, lol).
Actually.. look at the terran empire ships during the mirror event. Those NPC's do heal and use a lot of engineering and science buffs on themselves. If all NPC's were like that and did it a lot more often, the escort's performance would be quite different.

However the only thing Cryptic seems to do is increase npc weapon damage and hitpoints in some lame attempt to make the game 'challenging' . All it does instead is further the need for DPS output and put engineering and science support abilities deeper into the trash can.

These odysseys are a prime example. Despite it being a cruiser the only ship that gets a real, applicable performance boost is the tactical one. Its DPS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Which makes sense because it's the tactical class that is supposed to do the damage, isn't it?

As for the NPCs, hopefully one day they'll all be better with decent builds and skills on par with the number that players have available. Until then DPS will probably continue to be the way to go in PvE unfortunately.
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