Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
03-10-2012, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yreodred

Personally i never played WoW that much to know all quests, but wow... i didn't expect such heavy stuff like that in especially that game.


Live long and prosper.
I point that out not to say "WoW is awesome" but to say there are notes you can hit.

Someone mentioned music.

Star Trek music has a reputation for being deafeningly sentimental. ******** uses this to great effect and I think the people who do respond more emotionally to it play with the music on.

STO has lots of Dennis McCarthy-style "lock and load" music but only one track in STO borders on what I would call sentimental.

I did a video of STO when Sector Space was revamped using the orchestral "Inner Light" track. It was just something I threw together on my laptop.

http://youtu.be/75QOvJTq9q0

I had people contacting me to tell me it made them cry.

I think playing with sentiment is a must for Star Trek.

There are royalty free tracks good for any size project that hit the same notes.

Oh. And "The Inner Light" medly is based on the public domain "Skye Boat Song"

http://youtu.be/xIlA2gaBlek

So there's flat out public domain music that hits some of those notes. Just a matter of getting the right arrangement.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
03-10-2012, 08:26 PM
I had 1 glitch for the entire mission. Details below.

I died a total of 3 times. Once when the BoP exploded, once on the Promenade because I had an attack of the stupids and once in space.

The spacewalk was a missed opprotunity in my opinion. There was potential for some snazy new mechanics and challenges that was completely wasted.

The Promenade was a fun little scavenger hunt and fairly easy once I stopped being stupid. The kit with the Stealth power was very handly.

My 1 glitch occured in the Ops battle, whats-his-name got stuck in the door and I murdered him easily.

The space battle was fun but too busy to really appreciate visually. Sadly the arrival of the Enterprise was another missed opprotunity.

Here was a chance for an EPIC cutscene and it got cheaped out on. We players needed to see our ship getting pounded to scrap around us then zoom out to an external view as the Enterprise drops out of warp guns blazing and destroys the attacking ships. Shame on you Devs.

But overall, I can say I enjoyed the series and look forward to the next one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133
03-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
Seriously, go back a look at the cutscenes from the 14-year old game Metal Gear Solid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ZIM1q1RHk), and you will see better voice work (and music!), better animation, and far superior camera work that ultimately creates [u[infinitely[/u] more compelling cutscenes than in STO. The animations are laughable, the camera work is rough, the voiceovers are usually weak, and in particular the egregious and awkward silence of your character as he talks to the Jem'Hadar in Ops is especially jarring. I am absolutely unimpressed by the cutscenes in STO, they're just awful. If this is really all they can do as far as cutscenes, it's not hardly worth the effort IMO.
I think it's a style thing and you'll see a difference when they open up cutscene creation in The Foundry.

I too get distracted by the excessive body language and superfluous camera motion in Cryptic's cutscenes. There's a definite "tech geek whiz bang" angle employed in Cryptic's approach to cutscenes, like many things they do. I think the Cloaked Intentions cutscenes were better, personally, but Loriss Bob the Builder dance and Shron's opera acting theatrics bug me as someone who's studied film.

I'd rather have a fixed camera and someone talking than have these crazy dances. This is one area where I expect Foundry authors will, no offense intended to Cryptic's hard work, totally leave devs in the dust, in part by showing restraint with the tools and just having people who are talking, well... talk, and not do a dance number.

I can understand them not allowing skips because they use them to conceal changes. There's stuff going on that you're not supposed to be able to see while the cutscene plays.

But the insistance on flashy emotes and spinning cameras brings this to mind:

http://youtu.be/KlBk5CtyaYw
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
03-10-2012, 08:33 PM
I found it a bit wierd in the ending fleet engagement that the Enterprise showing up was going to somehow save the day for everyone. Granted the name has a history in the fleet, but it's a new ship and new crew. What do we really know about these guys? And the Odyssey is the latest class to come out of the shipyards, but is it really so awesome that it can face down a Dominion fleet?

The scene that's trying to be replicated in game here is the one from First Contact (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZbCNexctc), but the reaction we're seeing from Worf is more about Picard and the crew arriving on scene than it is about the Sovereign Class USS Enterprise getting there. Picard and crew have had experience fighting the Borg for one, and two, Worf served for seven years with them. Him leaping to his feet in a moment of swelling pride makes sense since he's had the time and experience with the Enterprise crew to know that the outlook for the crisis at hand just got better.

I don't have that same connection to this Enterprise and her crew since I haven't been serving side by side with them since the beginning of my character's Starfleet career two years ago. In fact, the game has been selling me the idea that I'm the captain of my own "Enterprise" and that I'm the go to person for all manner of crisis. So when the Enterprise F showed up here, my reaction was more of a "Eh..."

Honestly. I wasn't excited to see the Enterprise show up.

It could be that this was the wrong FE to introduce her and the crew in since when I think of the Enterprise intervening in a crisis, I think the Borg. A Featured Episode arc that focused on the Borg would've been more appropriate I think to introduce the Enterprise and crew. If anything, I feel that Kurland and his command crew should've maintained sole ownership of the character spotlight. When I see Jem'Hadar wandering about, I think DS9 and the Defiant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that a new ship has been introduced to carry on the name Enterprise. I don't think that this particular FE was the right way to introduce her though. A video, similar to the Expanding Universe segments done awhile ago, would've been good. Or even some ongoing personal logs from the crew of the Enterprise. What we have now just seems a little shoehorned to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
03-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
I guess this mission was better than the last one, but definitely not that compelling.

But I gotta say, the horrible quality of cutscenes in this game really, really detract from the experience IMO. When my captain has a conversation with the Jem'Hadar in Ops, there is awkward and jarring silence because my character has no voiceover. The whole thing just falls apart.

It seems like everyone here practically wets themselves with excitement when they see a cutscene, and I honestly, truly don't get it. All I see are hacked together and amateur attempts, with final results that look worse than what we were seeing 10 or more years ago on the PS1.

Seriously, go back a look at the cutscenes from the 14-year old game Metal Gear Solid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ZIM1q1RHk), and you will see better voice work (and music!), better animation, and far superior camera work that ultimately creates [u[infinitely[/u] more compelling cutscenes than in STO. The animations are laughable, the camera work is rough, the voiceovers are usually weak, and in particular the egregious and awkward silence of your character as he talks to the Jem'Hadar in Ops is especially jarring. I am absolutely unimpressed by the cutscenes in STO, they're just awful. If this is really all they can do as far as cutscenes, it's not hardly worth the effort IMO.

And the knife in the back is that you can't skip through them. It's bad enough to suffer through them on the first playthrough, but being forced to endure through them again and again to get all the mission rewards, or to play through as alts, it's just unacceptable.

If the Cryptic engine cannot handle worthwhile cutscenes, stop trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Give up, and play up on the strengths of your engine, don't waste precious time and resources raming though crap that doesn't belong just because other MMOs offer it.

On the whole, the mission (and entire series) also lacked impact because I didn't actually re-take DS9. I started the mission standing on the promenade for pete's sake, and had to warp out to sector space just to re-enter the DS9 system to get to the "other" DS9 that was taken by the Jem'Hadar. There was absolutely no investment in the story, because none of it had any iota of impact on the game world.

It is also abundantly clear that significant portions of each mission were completed only in the final week before release. The fact that the Bajor ground map did not go live with the first mission, the slip-up and "pre-release" of the third mission (where most of it was inaccessible), lack of class specific objectives and accolades in missions 4 and 5. This whole series has just been one big rush job, finished at literally the last minute before release.

P.S. also a MAJOR letdown based on what we saw of this mission in the F2P trailer (multiple people EVAing around on DS9 while a huge battle takes place overhead) to what we actually saw, which was a single klingon BoP (that randomly happened to be there) suicide bombing DS9. And one Jem'Hadar bug floating overhead after getting chased away by a few puny torpedoes. I guess the joke's on us for actually thinking something remotely close to the trailer would happen in-game.
I think you have a point here.
I agree, the devs shouldn't waste their precious time on bad cutscenes, which are really nothing to be proud of. They rather should concentrate on making better missions (testing them) and improve the GAMEPLAY itself, but they shouldn't really waste their time on Cutcenes and amateurish voiceover anymore.
(A grand music theme would have worked much better than cheap sounding voices imho.)

You are absolutely right that they should concentrate on the strenghts of their engine, and of the game itself, like revamping ship tiers, revamping exploration or something like that.
... and please no more remastering old missions, STO needs more content, not old stuff repolished...
(sorry i had to say this)

Live long and prosper.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
03-10-2012, 08:37 PM
The Enterprise is the flagship of Starfleet. The A-Number-One Head Honcho ship of the entire fleet.

So yeah, it's name being present has both history AND reputation on its side.

The Enterprise showing up is supposed to be that "cavalry has arrived" moment of the story.

It's also not hard to suspend one's disbelief that the latest and greatest ship of the line showing up as the most storied tradition of all of starfleet, can handle the remnants of a fleet comprised of ships that have been lost for 40 some odd years.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
03-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Yeah. I think I'm gonna have a word with Admiral Quinn. If getting your ship blown up gets you command of the Enterprise, I think I'm entitled to one of my own. :-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
03-10-2012, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
As a heads up, the shard of possibilities (possibly named orb of possibilities early) was part of the game updates early last year. That's how long much of this series was delayed.
Which is why the shift from Dan saying he was playing a prelim sometime last year, and then someone redacting that and saying the only started working on it a month or so back was even more annoying. That's one of Cryptic's biggest flaws, they think they have to lie to us to keep us from being frustrated, when it serves to do the opposite, especially when its obvious.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
03-10-2012, 08:52 PM
I think several things went wrong during this episode.

Thing 1) - The vast majority of this episode was "wasted time" because the entire reason we went on an EV suit excursion and infiltrated the facility was so we could kill Karu'kan and prevent an epic space battle.

We did all of these things and I'm pretty damn certain I even killed Karu'kan, but that didn't prevent him from beaming out of Ops like he was perfectly fine and begin an epic space battle that cost lives. So I was extremely agitated by that.

Thing 2) - The final space battle was supposed to be epic. It wasn't, because it pretty much lacked a score. There was no music of any kind during this, just lasers and torpedo fire. So when the Enterprise warps in, it's pretty anti-climactic.

3) As others have kind of hinted at, the fact that we're not introduced to Shon's crew means that we're not exactly all that excited to see them. Who are they? I recognized Winters, but who was the girl wearing purple next to them? I see the Caitian, but who is she? These were questions I wanted answered, and because the mission ended on Ops on DS9, instead of the bridge of the Enterprise, I don't think we got the opportunity to meet that crew. I found that an incredible missed opportunity, because very little of that NEEDED to be done in Ops and could have taken place on the Enterprise.

4.) Enterprise Ex Machina. Because the Enterprise isn't exactly mentioned at any point in this episode, it seems kind of weird that it magically appeared out of the blue and saved the day. Yeah, sure, we were previously introduced to Shon, but that only explained WHO was magically saving you at the end oft he episode, not how he got his ride there. It was important for Facility 2028 to show the Belfast being destroyed, but no word on how he got out? No previous mention of the Enterprise being built in shipyards anywhere? This creates and Deus Ex Machina, and seems pretty forced.

Anyway, that's my feedback.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
03-10-2012, 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havraha View Post
4.) Enterprise Ex Machina. Because the Enterprise isn't exactly mentioned at any point in this episode, it seems kind of weird that it magically appeared out of the blue and saved the day.
Honestly, since it was just a short cutscene then back to me having to blow everything up I felt the Enterprise-F was more an interruption rather than saving the day. Saving the Day would have been the Ent-F warping in, blowing up the Dreadnought while I picked up the stragglers. To me the short appearance and lack of really doing anything seemed like a downer to the epic "Enterprise saves the day" story I was expecting and really wanting to see.
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