Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-11-2012, 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucianalliance View Post
Much like politicians, once the campaign promises get them elected...
...they continue campaigning for four years in the hopes we elect them again?

I still say the KDF issue needs to be broken down into smaller chunks rather than the fix everything now mentality that some display.

We've seen all sorts of lists of what needs to be done. Different people have different priorities in many cases, as far as what they think is the most important and should be addressed. And again, there are those that want it all addressed yesterday.

If it's broken down into chunks, it might be something that could eventually happen. Otherwise, it presents an overwhelming mess of work that is unlikely ever to take place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-11-2012, 09:16 PM
Not sure what you want me to discuss. Right before Dan left a while back and a little bit afterwards, the devs were saying that PWE wanted to bring the Kling Faction up to par with the Federation. Then, soon after Dan left, in November 2011, Stormshade said that plans were being laid for a great deal more KDF content post-F2P. My question is what happened since these statements were said to make Dan on the latest stoke say that the KDF playerbase numbers just don't justify creating a lot of content for them? That's basically the same argument that Cryptic has used for the last 2 years to justify not expanding the KDF. Sorry, but I;m not convinced. The KDF are as they are because they don't have any new Klingon content to play. In addition, new players are forced to play feds if they want to play klings because they have to get to to level 25 Fed to unlock the Klingon faction. That's not fair to Kling fans and that's not fair to the all of the Klingon fans who have been waiting a long, long time for you to make true on your promises.

Why not go about it a different way? Makie 1 Klingon daily mission per month and at least 1 Klingon singleplayer mission per 2 months. After a year, you'll have 6 singleplayer missions with 12 dailies. You could even make hybrids. Make a small singeplayer mission that has elements of a patrol run but with a small plot that gives it the feel of a real story.

Within a year, you'll be able to bring the Klingon starting level down to 10. Within 2 years, you'll be able to bring it to 1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I'd like to see more Klingon stuff.

That said, I am starting to wonder if more leveling content is the way to go because they don't really want people to spend much time leveling. The message I'm getting seems to be that they want people at the cap as quickly as possible and adding more Klingon content to LEVELING doesn't accomplish that.

I do think KDF should unlock sooner.

But starting 20 levels higher could be a selling point.

The less popular they anticipate a faction being, the higher level it starts at.

That could balance out faction population numbers if there's not a gate on rolling one.

Say Romulans and Cardassians start at 35. Ferengi start at level 45 or even at 50.

Then you market these factions for people who want a shortcut to endgame, who don't want to level at all.

If everybody gets a Ferengi slot and Ferengi don't have to level, you get everyone who MIGHT want a Ferengi to roll one.

This does reframe some of the issues.

Less Klingon leveling isn't necessarily less Klingon content if missions are not the prime kind of content being produced. We're looking at missions as the standard because they have been so far. But you can have other PvE and, indeed, other PvE quests -- even ones with cutscenes and voice and any other whistles and bells you can think of -- but that are not necessarily episodic missions.

You could have, for instance, Klingon exclusive STFs or crafting systems designed to compensate for the shorter leveling curve and that provide Klingon feel in other ways.

I think in some respects, STO is probably looking at moving its PvE and even its storyline outside of the mission mold.
KDF was popular until shortly after release when the majority of people playing it quit after realizing Cryptic didn't and wasn't going to develop the faction. People get attached to characters. After investing time in the other faction halfway to max to just start over even at 20 with no credits, doffs, doffs, et al just doesn't work and is a turn off to most people. And using that as a selling point and justification to never develop the faction is just asinine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Not sure what you want me to discuss. Right before Dan left a while back and a little bit afterwards, the devs were saying that PWE wanted to bring the Kling Faction up to par with the Federation. Then, soon after Dan left, in November 2011, Stormshade said that plans were being laid for a great deal more KDF content post-F2P. My question is what happened since these statements were said to make Dan on the latest stoke say that the KDF playerbase numbers just don't justify creating a lot of content for them? That's basically the same argument that Cryptic has used for the last 2 years to justify not expanding the KDF. Sorry, but I;m not convinced. The KDF are as they are because they don't have any new Klingon content to play. In addition, new players are forced to play feds if they want to play klings because they have to get to to level 25 Fed to unlock the Klingon faction. That's not fair to Kling fans and that's not fair to the all of the Klingon fans who have been waiting a long, long time for you to make true on your promises.

Why not go about it a different way? Makie 1 Klingon daily mission per month and at least 1 Klingon singleplayer mission per 2 months. After a year, you'll have 6 singleplayer missions with 12 dailies. You could even make hybrids. Make a small singeplayer mission that has elements of a patrol run but with a small plot that gives it the feel of a real story.

Within a year, you'll be able to bring the Klingon starting level down to 10. Within 2 yeras, you'll be able to bring it to 1.
The premise is based upon the assumption there are as many people that want to play KDF as Fed. That there are as many KDF fans as Fed fans...heck, that there are even as many KDF/Fed fans as Fed fans.

It's also dismissing the possibility that many of those fans are Klingons as allies of the Feds fans. The people that want to play Worf or Torres, etc, etc. As opposed to those that want to play Klingons at war with the Federation.

To an extent, I think that is where they are coming from in regard to the KDF as a full separate faction.

...that being said though...

With a timeline similar to what you have suggested, they could plug the holes in the 30s and 40s - they could work on Marauding mission counterparts to Patrols, etc, etc, etc. Even somewhere down the line, we could find it dropped from 20 to 10 to 1...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-11-2012, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucianalliance View Post
KDF was popular until shortly after release when the majority of people playing it quit after realizing Cryptic didn't and wasn't going to develop the faction. People get attached to characters. After investing time in the other faction halfway to max to just start over even at 20 with no credits, doffs, doffs, et al just doesn't work and is a turn off to most people. And using that as a selling point and justification to never develop the faction is just asinine.
KDF peaked at being 20% of STO's population as I understand it.

I think marketing non-Fed factions to people who are not necessarily as into Star Trek or leveling is probably a sound move.

I think maybe it would still be ideal to start KDF higher even if they had the same number of missions because it would attract convenience oriented players.

This was something the big fan-run Trek MUSHes all had to deal with in some form back in the 90s and they generally had to have quotas (ie. locking off popular factions like Feds) or give other factions gameplay/convenience edges to balance out their playerbases, even with equal content for all factions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-11-2012, 09:50 PM
I don't mind them setting the unlock point for KDF play at a higher UFP level. But KDF should always start at Level 1.

Let's say there are 25 levels worth of existing KDF content. So I get to 25 on UFP and can now start level 1-25 on the KDF side.

Cryptic should be working to release a standard mission series for the KDF as often as possible. Each of these mission series should yield enough XP to advance the KDF player to the next level. The UFP level requirement to unlock KDF gameplay would decrease by 1.

So when there is enough content to take KDF from 1-26, KDF gameplay would unlock at UFP Level 24.

Continue the prrocess until both factions can level straight from 1 to 50 off mission content.

Then introduce the Romulan faction with enough content to take a player from Level 1 to level 2. Set the unlock requirement to a KDF or UFP character at Level 49. Keep releasing the content and lowering the unlock level requirement. Eventually, everything reaches equilibrium.

That's how I would do it.

But that would require semi-regular content releases from cryptic, and they just can't seem to get the support from their new bosses to do something like that. And we cannot get a single straight answer as to WHAT exactly they are going to do, let alone when we can expect it.

I want to see the Klingons as a faction you can level from 1 to max on mission content alone. I want to see the Romulans and Cardassians get the same treatment. It can be done if Cryptic would just bother to do it instead of focusing so much energy on systems designed to just suck money out of people's wallets in exchange for fluff..

I would gladly pay for a C-store unlock on top of the other-faction level prerequisite for the Romulan and/or cardassian factions when their content starts coming available.

IF I were running the show, I would encourage players to invest their C-points into gameplay rather than just fluff. I see nothing wrong with monetizing as much as possible. That's how they will make money under their chosen F2P model. But extended gameplay features need to be the focus, not fluff.

Business is really simple. If you have a product people want, they will buy it. Too many people are seeing the fluff and lottery box elements as the cash grab scams they are and are not buying them. Charge silvers for access to extended gameplay options with some free introductory content and let subsribers have unlimited access. More subs = more steady revenue. Many silvers will still buy into the material on the grounds that they don't have to commit to a subscription. Those who won't subscribe or buy into it really won't be wanting it.

Now while I said I would be willing to pay for access to Romulan and Cardassian faction gameplay, I will not pay for KDF gameplay. That was something we were PROMISED from day one, and when it comes it had better not cost us a dime to participate in any part of it.

The game has been live longer than it was in development after being unveiled. The game launched with less than half of what we were told it would have. There has been more than enough time since launch to rectify this. There was plenty of time to do so before Atari laid off all those people and stopped funding Cryptic. But at every step of the way it was decided that something else would be done instead. And there is no tangible evidence that this has changed.

I say it as long past time for SOMETHING to have manifested.

And if it is so cost-prohibitive to develop more than two FE series in a year, then take the people you would be putting on such a project and put them on finishing the KDF and getting it live by years end. Stop fixing crap that isn't broken and start finishing what is incomplete.

That is directed at the decision makers, not the developers. Developers only do what they are told to do. And right now the crap they are told to do is eating way too much into the time that could be spent doing what needs to be done.

Yes, this is a business and the goal is making money. But your product is a game that is so incomplete in so many ways. Fill in the gaps and more people will spend money. It isn't rocket science. A=A. It is what it is.

Build upon the product and your profits will build upon themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-11-2012, 10:07 PM
So stop development for everybody except those that want 1-19 KDF?

That will even alienate much of the KDF population that is already 50, may have multiple 50s, and wants new content appropriate to the level of their characters...

...all with no guarantee that creating 1-19 will justify the cost of it, much less turn a profit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-11-2012, 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
KDF peaked at being 20% of STO's population as I understand it.
That is true. However, KDF player involvement has been so low becaus no real effort has been put into developing KDF gameplay, and no real effort has been put into developing KDF gameplay because KDF player involvement has been so low.

Cryptic has done nothing but dodge their own culpability in this issue rather than owning up to their shortcomings and correcting them. And seeing as nothing new on the KDF front is forthcoming, I see nothing to suggest that this has really changed.

The cool thing is that none of us are obligated to pay for their shortsightedness any longer. If they are making money now they do so only from those who want to spend it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-11-2012, 10:26 PM
I would prefer the following...
  • Unlock Klingons from the start
  • When you have reached Cap in any faction, new Characters start at Captain, not ensign.

But the reason Klingons unluck at Lv25 is to step over the content gap Klingon's complain about.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-11-2012, 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
So stop development for everybody except those that want 1-19 KDF?

That will even alienate much of the KDF population that is already 50, may have multiple 50s, and wants new content appropriate to the level of their characters...

...all with no guarantee that creating 1-19 will justify the cost of it, much less turn a profit.
Well if PWI would do what we were led to believe they would do and actually hire enough people to staff up the STO dev team, they could produce more than two FE series in a year AND finish out the KDF faction.

But PWI seems to be interested only in cash grab tactics.

We were recently told that Cryptic isn up by two on their team so far. Unless these two are actually working on actual playable content, then the problem is no closer to being solved.

I would rather see them use pre-existing art assets in creative ways and get the content out there that people can actually experience. the Star Trek TV shows have all recycled assets throughout their production runs and were successful. The same can be done with virtual assets.

I've said it elsewhere and I don't mind saying it again. If they want to make money off fluff like uniforms, ship varriants amd other things of that nature, then they can produce those assets, work them into content thay utilizes essentially recycled assets. The new things will stand out. They would be introduced as NPC elements. In short order the forums would be hit with "I want that uniform/ship!" Then a couple of weeks later it can show up on the C-store.

It's called product placement. It's a very effective marketing tactic, and it is the one marketing tactic that Cryptic has yet to bother with.

Imagine if we never were told about or shown the Oddyssey class until the Enterprise-F showd up at the end of the current FE.

Can you imagine how many people would be squeeing like schoolgirls begging to be allowed to have it. And then two weeks later have it show up on the C-store in not one, not two, but three configuration varriants? And what if they also released Oddyssey uniform complete with a new combadge?

Anyway... It didn't happen that way. But future c-store product deployment could be introduced in that fashion. If it comes associated with real gameplay content, I'd buy it in a heartbeat...
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