Lt. Commander
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# 41
03-14-2012, 05:35 AM
You did see quite a few Nebbies as well. Tho in the episode 'Home Front or Paradise Lost' the Defiant goes 1v1 vs an excelsior, the excelsior has been severly upgrades on both Phasers and Quantums, that would lead me to state that the defiant is at 'stock' a more powerfull ship than the excelsior.
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# 42
03-14-2012, 05:46 AM
i don't buy that fight between the Lakota and Defiant. Excelsior had phaser coverage all over the hull and could hit the Defiant at will, the Defiant had to use straffing runs to score hits.
The Lakota had the weapons coverage to wear the Defiant down alot easier than the Defiant could the Lakota.
Take the plot and hero ship out of the equasion and i'd give this to the Lakota.
Merely on weapons coverage.

Take alook at the defiant in game it has a powerful frontal assault but weak at the rear you have to use hit and run tactics against the big ships whereas the Excelsior fore, aft or sideways has sustained firepower
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# 43
03-14-2012, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doylematt4 View Post
i don't buy that fight between the Lakota and Defiant. Excelsior had phaser coverage all over the hull and could hit the Defiant at will, the Defiant had to use straffing runs to score hits.
The Lakota had the weapons coverage to wear the Defiant down alot easier than the Defiant could the Lakota.
Take the plot and hero ship out of the equasion and i'd give this to the Lakota.
Merely on weapons coverage.

Take alook at the defiant in game it has a powerful frontal assault but weak at the rear you have to use hit and run tactics against the big ships whereas the Excelsior fore, aft or sideways has sustained firepower
^^ This is more than likly dead on. Problem is, as 'canon' goes, the defiant at stock is stronger than the excelsior.
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# 44
03-14-2012, 06:17 AM
So instead of whining and having yet another tha-DEVs-hates-mah-ship thread, how about some constructive AND REALISTIC ideas to improve it instead of name-calling the DEVS(btw, an "awesome" motivational tool ) and petulant whining about an oh so obsolete ship.

Realistic in so far as obviously the the DEVs won´t touch the current base stats with a 10 foot pole, as it just introduces a buttload of balancing problems. So that only leaves special equipment to improve a ship.

So how about asking for a GALAXY specific new kind of console set or a weapons set, a standard set(engine/shld/def.), a mix of the above?

So start the brainstorming gentlemen:
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# 45
03-14-2012, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doylematt4 View Post
Galaxy at the end of the tng movie era was the Federations 2nd most powerful starship behind only the Excelsior.
Had to fix that for you to reflect Cryptic and STO.
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# 46
03-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the enterprise D was built to be decedent, it was the flagship after all, its the most gilded of all starfleet ships. it was supposed to be so awesome and impressive that when it made first contact with a new race it was supposed to absolutely wow whoever they paraded through the ship. show them that being a member of the federation allowed this much comfort and power at the same time. none of this comfort took away from the fact that it had the longest, most powerful phaser array of any ship class, and the 2 largest highest capacity torpedo launchers of any ship class. no canon or non cannon ship that i have seen has superior armaments.
Those powerfull long range phasers arrays and awesome torpedo launchers did wonders for the U.S.S. Odyssey, didin't it? (And she was well hosed before the ramming.) The fact is, we really cant say that other classes didn't have those weapon systems on them, if they didn't put those systems on medium/heavy cruisers (to the minimum) they were fools not to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its likely the first 6 galaxy were similar to the enterprise in interior comfort and civilian make up, but the 12 to 30 built afterward were likely much different, with the borg threat and war with the dominian looming. the ds9 tech manual states that the galaxys built during the war had 60% of its interior left empty. if it can do without that much of it's interior in a pinch, think of how modular it could be more purpose built. we already seen the comfortable enterprise D, there could conceivably be an even more science and exploration focused version, or a fully tactical battleship, carrier, and troop transport. yes a galaxy could serve as a carrier, its main shuttlebay was so large it was impossible to ever build a set for it, so it has never been seen.
But there weren't.

Isaac, wheres my prune juice , "the drink of warriors"?
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# 47
03-14-2012, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
So how about asking for a GALAXY specific new kind of console set or a weapons set, a standard set(engine/shld/def.), a mix of the above?
The only thing that could be done is turning the Lt. Commander and Ensign Engineering stations into Universal stations and you know they are not going to it.
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# 48
03-14-2012, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doylematt4 View Post
i don't buy that fight between the Lakota and Defiant. Excelsior had phaser coverage all over the hull and could hit the Defiant at will, the Defiant had to use straffing runs to score hits.
The Lakota had the weapons coverage to wear the Defiant down alot easier than the Defiant could the Lakota.
Take the plot and hero ship out of the equasion and i'd give this to the Lakota.
Merely on weapons coverage.

Take alook at the defiant in game it has a powerful frontal assault but weak at the rear you have to use hit and run tactics against the big ships whereas the Excelsior fore, aft or sideways has sustained firepower
My take on this. Sorry for the long-winded reply, but I don't think it's a cut-and-dry single issue here.

To be fair, neither ship was trying to seriously damage the other, just to disable the opposition. It seems obvious from the dialogue that it was understood that having the Lakota use its quantumn torpedoes would destroy the Defiant without question, though the Defiant using its own torps would probably have severly damaged the Lakota. Note though that the Lakota was an Excelsior-B upgrade, not a stock Excelsior, just as the Defiant was an upgraded prototype for a class that did not feature many of its own improvements (pretty much T5 versions of both ships vrs their lower teir versions). Likely there were very limited numbers of both of these upgraded classes but not nearly as many as the production-run versions.

As far as the Galaxy class goes, it should be noted that the Galaxy class was built in a time of relative peace for the Federation. A mutual non-agression treaty was in place with the Klingons and the Romulans hadn't been heard from in decades. The ship was built primarily as an exploration ship with the comfort of the crew over long voyages as much a consideration as the fighting capabilities of the ship (Starfleet was sliding into the mindset that war was a thing of the past). It wasn't until the Enterprise encountered the Borg that Starfleet realized that their ships might meet an enemy that couldn't be negotiated with, and started a program to develop true warships. Galaxy-class ships were probably upgraded on a selective basis, but they were still ships designed to transport families across long distances more than fighting ships.

The Excelsiors were the workhorse of Starfleet, built as much to fight the Klingons as to explore, and were the closest Starfleet had to battleships. The wars with the Borg, Dominion, Cardassians, and Klingons saw these ships take horrendous losses because they were always tasked with the heaviest fighting, and it's likely they weren't in heavy production with the Galaxy class in favor. By the time of ST:Generations, the Excelsior class is out of production and the few remaining ships of the class are being rotated out of service life. The introduction of the Sovereign class seems like a direct attempt to make a successor to the Excelsior, a cruiser built for fighting. By the time of STO, the Excelsiors are either mothballed ships brought back into service or single-ship new construction for special duty (training ship, emergency fast-response cruiser, ect). All of the duties once done by the class have been assumed by the Assault Cruiser classes, which are still in full production. The new Odyssey class seems to be a similar attempt to build a successor vessel, this time to the Galaxy class, which has its own uber-upgrade in the Galaxy-X, but is otherwise now more a standard Federation starship than the top of the line, let alone flagship of the fleet.

Ultimately, the Galaxy-class are in the place the Excelsiors once occupied as the workhorse of the Federation. Large numbers have been and continue to be produced, but the designs can only be upgraded to a point without the cost in resources outstripping the value of the ships. In game terms, the introduction of the Odyssey class may indeed seem to eclipse the decades-old Galaxy, but that doesn't mean the Galaxy-R doesn't have its strengths. For one thing, it is cheaper, so that translates into more C-points for things like ship slots and later Galaxy Interiors that might come out (as it seems the Defiant interior has sparked interest). It is also a classic Galaxy-class hull, something people who prefer that design over the Odyssey can use without a huge difference in the two (3000 hull points and two console slots do make a difference, but that's the extra pricetag for you).

So, I believe the Galaxy-R still has a place in the game for those who don't want to spend as much on their cruiser, or just enjoy the Galaxy design more than the Odyssey. But other than that, it seems clear that the Odyssey is going to outshine the Galaxy-R (but not the Galaxy-X, I think).

My own two cents on the subject.
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# 49
03-14-2012, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doylematt4 View Post

Sovereign
Galaxy
Prometheus
Akira
Nebula
Ambassador
Excelsior
Defiant

is my tier list
based on how phaser arrays work, longer they are the more powerful a beam it can fire basically, and how enormous and high capacity its 2 torpedo launchers are, easily firing bursts of 10 per launcher and capable of more, and the fact that it is 2.4 times larger then the sovereign, Ive concluded the galaxy is still the most powerful ship. followed by the nebula that is approximately as large, and has at least the same huge phaser arrays. the sovereign might be the most advanced, but that doesn't mean biggest guns, especially when its so much smaller. after years of debating and thinking about this, these are my firepower rank conclusions. the order they come in takes into account how durable they are too, firepower isnt everything.

Galaxy- enterprise D at launch rating 100
Nebula- 90
Sovereign- 70 standard, 80 after pre nemisis upgrade
Akira- 70, though smaller and less durable then a sovereign
Ambassador- 50 though huge and durable, its arrays are very small for a large ship
split Prometheus- 65 MVAM allows it to overwhelm a ship that otherwise would be out of its league.
Prometheus- 55- advanced, shorter arrays then the intrepid, but type12 emitters
Intrepid- 50
Steamrunner- 50
Defiant- 60
highly refit Excelsior- 45
Norway-40
average Excelsior- 30
Saber- 40
Nova-30
Miranda- 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
Those powerfull long range phasers arrays and awesome torpedo launchers did wonders for the U.S.S. Odyssey, didin't it? (And she was well hosed before the ramming.) The fact is, we really cant say that other classes didn't have those weapon systems on them, if they didn't put those systems on medium/heavy cruisers (to the minimum) they were fools not to do so.
in that episode the odysseys shields and weapons were useless. why? well they had to kill a galaxy to move the story along. the captain and crew seemed just as incompetent as the enterprise D crew during any sort of battle, the result of the writers trying to make the most powerful starfleet ship the underdog in every situation to create drama. the odyssey didn't even fire until the jem hadar were at point blank range and they didn't fire a single torpedo. incompetence is all i can figure, if they fired at those jem hadar like the enterprise did at 38 seconds in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734a...7F38EA72A03613 the battle would have lasted about 2 seconds. the galaxy can bring down the thunder, the writers just never let it.

as far as the type of phaser the galaxy had, sure by the time of this battle most ships proboly had the same type 10 emitters. they just didn't have arrays as long and with as many emitters as the galaxy did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
But there weren't.

Isaac, wheres my prune juice , "the drink of warriors"?
they weren't what, carriers? wonder how all those fighters got to those battles? sure they were warp capable, so are a lot of shuttles, doesn't mean they arent going to hitch a ride in a large enough shuttle bay whenever possible.

or there weren't at least 30 galaxy class? that's a low ball. you can count 10 at least in the ds9 fleet battles. that's just 1 fleet, there are a ton of organized federation fleets durring the war, all of them proboly had several galaxy class in them.

or what, they cant be set up more like battle ships? people will believe whatever fan**** they read about the sovereign or defient, but when ever someone suggests something that starfleet would be capable of doing , and would be smart to do so during war time to the galaxy class, everyone's all like no way galaxy sucks!
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# 50
03-18-2012, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Trekkie View Post
Most iconic? My Constitution would like to have a word with you.
OG Star Trek with Kirk only had two seasons. TNG had 7.
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