Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
03-14-2012, 05:49 PM
I think that what bothered everyone the most about 2009 was that they had CG on land. Not resorting to childish looking CG was one thing us trekkies had over those force-pushers. It changed the feel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
03-14-2012, 06:38 PM
Your asking for too far.

The developers have posted what is coming this year and it is all very trek. What your asking for ignores the fact that not only is the game already here but it is a computer game it cannot behave like real life.

I mean do you want us spending 20 years of our real lifes ranking our characters to Captain ?!

Your asking for a game that could not come for another 10 maybe 20 years. A game with so much depth and choices it blows your mind. When such games come, Startrek will be the last on the list to be made because the trek generation is literally getting old and dying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
03-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Good thread, but the OP is asking for more of a sim than a game.

I too would prefer to see more simmy, more "realistic" elements and less gamey-gamer elements in MMOs in general, but it's never going to happen - or at least, not until such times as MMO engines are more generic and sim enthusiasts can spend most of their time on creating the amount of detail that would be required for a proper sim, at no great cost. (Much as music-making has been "democratized" by the introduction of ever cheaper and more powerful means of digital recording.)

Until that time, I doubt there's enough money in the potential MMORPS (massively multiplayer online roleplaying sim, my coinage, thank you ) market to attract big enough investment to make it to the standard it would have to be made to to make the licence/IP cost worthwhile.

OTOH, who knows, maybe the untapped market for MMORPSs is huge, and can exist quite happily alongside the more gamey-game MMORPGs!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
03-14-2012, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath
So what? The Kobayashi Maru is primarily a test of charactzer to see how the cadet would face a situation from which there is no escape. And I think that such a scenario, especially when it makes perfectly sense from a flavor perspective, would be a good addition to a role-playing game. Or did STO stop being a MMORPG? Also, just because Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway didn't have their years at the Academy shown in detail doesn't mean that the same must be true for the player characters. Funny, that other things should be different in STO than in the shows because STO is a game and not a TV show, and now you argue for things to stay the same as in a TV show despite STO being a completely different medium.
They didn't show the early years because they weren't deemed entertaining. Similarly the Kobyashi Maru was introduced to reveal more about Kirk. What exactly do you expect it to reveal about PC's? You do realize options are pre-programmed... this isn't pencil and paper role playing....


Quote:
Well, "Star Trek: Voyager - Elite Force" did just that, so there's a precidence for it. And considering the lesson you learned from the simulation it was a great intro to the game and an important step in character development. Further, in STV-EF using Borg in the "tutorial" worked, because the Borg weren't the ultimate enemies and you only fought them man-to-man (which is somewhat doable) and not 1-ship-vs-2-cubes-and-half-a-dozen-spheres (which is not doable, at least not by anything that's been displayed in the shows - and even Voyager with the transphasic torps and deployed armor from the future was beaten up pretty badly in the end and certainly wouldn't have survived for much longer).
Borg evolve individually too, particularly highlighted in First Contact. IIRC theborg ships in the tutorial are all badly damaged and thus much more vulnerable than normal.

Quote:
Oh, but there's a Founder to free in a top-secret Starfleet facility for "every captain"? There's a time-travelling armada that overtakes DS9 and needs to be stopped for "every captain"? There's a Benjamin Sisko needing to be saved in the past for "every captain"? What about that? If we apply your argument to the episodes the whole game goes up in flames and should be shot to be put out of its misery.

Either you consider every event singular and unique for every individual captain, or all captains collectively experience all events (which completely messes up all of the game). So, actually, Q is not showing up for "every captain", but only for my captain. Just like the Founder from Factility 4028 is only freed once, and not a gazillion times. And why should he save a Klingon or Gorn captain? Because Q knows that in 3 years that captain unwittingly does something that saves the federation's bacon.
Q didn't intervene to that level with respect to the Enterprise or to Voyager, and Voyager helped save the Continuum. He didn't intervene to save Tasha or Kes. What you are suggesting amounts to Q making your character invulnerable, rather than suspending disbelief and accepting it as a game mechanic. You can accept the fact that each and every captain has the same missions and DS9 being lost and recovered over and over, but you can't handle respawning on death?

Again, if Q is willing to chain rez your character, ship, and crew, why wouldn't he just save the Federation himself?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
03-16-2012, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Q didn't intervene to that level with respect to the Enterprise or to Voyager, and Voyager helped save the Continuum. He didn't intervene to save Tasha or Kes. What you are suggesting amounts to Q making your character invulnerable, rather than suspending disbelief and accepting it as a game mechanic. You can accept the fact that each and every captain has the same missions and DS9 being lost and recovered over and over, but you can't handle respawning on death?

Again, if Q is willing to chain rez your character, ship, and crew, why wouldn't he just save the Federation himself?
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Borg
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
03-16-2012, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath
You are using another game as canon?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
03-16-2012, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
You are using another game as canon?
I see. Then: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tapestry_(episode)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
03-16-2012, 04:26 PM
If they wanted to make the game more "Star trek"'y, they should start by removing some of the annoyances and fixing the bugs

Like

reversing a ship initiates a power drain
Talking to a bridge officer, drops your cloak, same as answering a hail or receiving a transmission.
Not being able to go to full impulse, run, or cloak when under attack (ground/space)
Not being able to cloak in sector space, to arrive in a system cloaked

So many silly restrictions/oddities, it defies belief.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
03-16-2012, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath
How about this:
* Hour 1: You acquire and install the game.

* Hour 2: Finish the first part of the game where you meet lots of NPCs that grow important later and learn the basics of the game, including one of the signature scenarios that several personalities from related movies and TV shows had to do as well. Bonus: get a nice cutscene with your very own Academy Graduation Ceremony (*cough*launch trailer*cough*) and a virtual Starfleet Officer Patent.

* Hour 3: Get assigned to a random starship that is on patrol somewhere, when a distress call is received that the Borg have invaded a colony/spacestation/whatever. Since you already know how to properly fight (see "Hour 2") you head out to meet with other crew members to prepare for intruders. When the first Borg appear on your ship you are prepared for it and don't run around like a headless chicken.

* Hour 4: The space battle isn't going well for your ship and it has sustained significant damage. The captain orders all hands to abandon ship and you get a nice cutscene with a view out of your escape pod showing how your little ship blows up.

* Hour 5: After being picked up by a rescue vessel after the fight is over and spending some time in the medical facilities of the next starbase, you're reassigned to a much larger ship. Depending on your chosen career you are now participating in lots of different away team missions (tac gets to mostly shoot things, while sci and eng get less action and more riddles/support stuff). All missions get a propper briefing, gear-up, execution and debriefing (unless something completely unexpected happens or something blows the mission) so that you feel like a real officer doing his duty and not some random slob.

* Hour 7: One mission was more than you could handle and your away team is overwhelmed. But instead of dying you have your first encounter with Q. He makes you play one of his silly games and tells you that you are too important to die, so he'll sort of look after you. He warns you, however, to not abuse his "protection" because at some point he will come to you to collect the debt.

* Hour 10: You get promoted and are finally granted your own command of a small courier/scout/support craft. You are doing missions requiring stealth and/or expertise (e.g. covert ops which only small craft are capable of doing, point-defense for a larger - perhaps even civilian - vessel, cleaning out minefields from previous conflicts, etc.) and are further promoted with time.

* Hour 15: You get promoted again and are granted command of your first bigger ship (cruiser/escort/science vessel) so that you can now take on more dangerous missions that require more firepower or abilities/energy. You still lead away teams and can call upon your crew (if available) to support you - like beaming down medical emergency teams to help wounded NPCs or requesting remote support from an experienced engineer or tactical advice from a security specialist.

* Hour 30: After another promotion you are trusted with an even larger ship and even more dangerous missions that now force you to confront truely alien enemies, like Borg or Undine. The battles become more dangerous and much to your chagrin Q seems to grow rather fond of you and starts messing with you more often.

* Hour 60: Saving the Federation's rearend several times you are promoted to the highest rank and can now request the biggest and most advanced crafts as your personal ship. Your abilities and highly trained bridge officers allow you to stand up against almost impossible odds and you successfully command fleets in battles against Borg incursions and in other large scale engagements. Your actions decide the fate of countless beings and whole worlds.

Sorry, but no. I want to be the heroic Captain of a starship. I don't want to have to advance through the ranks by scrubbing plasma coils.

This was suggested by too many people to count before beta even began but I have to agree with Cryptic on this one. I want to play games to be the hero. I can be a random every day person in real life I don't need to play games to do that.

As for Q respawning you, there's not much difference between that and what the game does right now. If you want, just imagine that Q is respawning you every time anyway. And besides, what happens if I die too much? Does Q "collect" as you put it and all of a sudden my character just suffered permadeath? That would be really nice when I die due to lag or maybe some game play bug. Additionally, I'd get pretty sick of Q popping up after even the 2nd death. Q needs to be used like it already is in game - in a few, select missions. If Q is there all the time, it makes him less special.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamPD View Post
If they wanted to make the game more "Star trek"'y, they should start by removing some of the annoyances and fixing the bugs

Like

reversing a ship initiates a power drain
Talking to a bridge officer, drops your cloak, same as answering a hail or receiving a transmission.
Not being able to go to full impulse, run, or cloak when under attack (ground/space)
Not being able to cloak in sector space, to arrive in a system cloaked

So many silly restrictions/oddities, it defies belief.
I would agree with all the above suggestions. These would be simple, non-game breaking changes too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
03-16-2012, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath
So you want us all to be Kirk, and have a chance to beat Kobyashi Maru, and all to be Picard, and have an in with Q. This still doesn't explain the death of Tasha Yar, or Kes, or Worf's former mate, or countless others.

And since, in the end, Picard is saved by Dr Crusher (rather than by Q) there is no evidence that Q actually saved him at all. Picard even speculates on that.

By the way, the link you provided says memory alpha has no entry for that episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestr...ext_Generation)
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