Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-A-T-H-F-I-N-D-E-R
I posted this in the bortaSqu thread and will post it here as well ....

What is really irritating is calling for nerfs BEFORE field testing a ship or item.

Just because you believe an item MIGHT be OP doesn't mean it will be.

Test first, then evaluate objectively.
While completely true, it is unfortunately obvious some people have already made their mind up on this subject.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-12-2012, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-A-T-H-F-I-N-D-E-R
Bout time we got flagships worthy of being called flagships.

Seriously .... test them before you trash them.
flagships doesnt mean "must take ship". the star cruiser has a bad turn rate too. why take it when you can take one of these and get so much more?

why take an assault cruiser when this ship assaults so much better (oddly enough the science varient of the oddessy will do more damage to a single target then the tactical version. go-figure that one out)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparhawk_Mike
While completely true, it is unfortunately obvious some people have already made their mind up on this subject.
ah right, cryptic has already made up their mind so why let us think our feedback on tribble will change anything?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Well first: you are not here since yesterday too.

After 2 years of experience in that game we all have some knowledge and now how to interpretate given stats when we see them.

Also: The officially statet this ship would be stronger then the others, so whats there to test about?
Its DESIGNED to be superior.
I've been here since closed beta and log playtime every day. .... Absolutely LOVE cruisers as well.

Have learned that it you can guess before you test but all you are doing is just that ... guessing.

We are close to being able to test, so your words do not hold water until after you have tested and verified what you are fearing.

Gather you evidence and present it from the tests ... then you have a solid foundation upon which to stand.

Otherwise, it comes across with about the same weight as a Fed crying for a BoP to be nerfed just because they do not understand the ships and how to use them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-12-2012, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
flagships doesnt mean "must take ship". the star cruiser has a bad turn rate too. why take it when you can take one of these and get so much more?

why take an assault cruiser when this ship assaults so much better (oddly enough the science varient of the oddessy will do more damage to a single target then the tactical version. go-figure that one out)
My guess is that the galaxy pack will even the galaxy line and that a sovereign refit is forthcoming.

Same for the others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-12-2012, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P-A-T-H-F-I-N-D-E-R
Bout time we got flagships worthy of being called flagships.

Seriously .... test them before you trash them.
Indeed. What else were people expecting with Tier 5.5 ships?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-12-2012, 06:32 PM
A big issue with the flagships is that the differentiation isn't good enough. Different console layouts don't work. Different BO layouts do. Giving every ship the same boff layout is a pretty serious design flaw because it makes only one variant worth taking.

As it stands, people who know how to play the game will just take the science variant with sensor analysis and if they want any of the other special powers they will slot those consoles on their ship.

If Cryptic is able to either see how obviously OP sensor analysis makes a cruiser (or God forbid, learn to just take the word of the entire PvP community when they are united) and takes that out, then people will just take the ship with the most tactical consoles.

These ships would be both far more interesting, far more balanced, and far less redundant if:
  1. Cryptic took away the extra console slot that is their for no other reason than to make the ships overpowered
  2. Took away sensor anaysis which only serves to limit people who know how to play to the one variant
  3. And differentiated based on bridge officer layout. For example, take out the Lt. Cmdr. universal, give the engineer variant an engineering Lt. Cmdr., the tactical gains a Lt. Cmdr. tac slot, and the sci variant takes a Lt. Cmdr. sci

Now the ships are "balanced but different", just like every other tier 5 C-store ship. Perhaps just slightly more powerful, but not enough to take away all choice and obsolete all previous C-store ships (and therefore drive those sales through the floor). You no longer have only one variant worth taking, and each ship is more interesting thanks to the bridge officer layouts giving each a more specific role.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-12-2012, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
except that the sensor version can get an extra 33% damage., sure turning is slow, beam arrays with an extra 33% damaage will make up for that. or take turrets instead and the extra 33% damage will make it like normal beams are hitting you from any direction.

see the problem?
Dude, I'm saying it IS broken L2R.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-12-2012, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparhawk_Mike
Indeed. What else were people expecting with Tier 5.5 ships?
the stats of the ships isnt the issue for me. its the sensor anlaysis thats being included on a varient of both the bortas and the oddessy that is making me so sad.

first they introduce doffs and gear that can do one of the science captains most treasured powers (the sub nuc beam) now a cruiser is getting sensor anaylisis that will allow it to do a lot more damage then even its own counterparts.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
Dude, I'm saying it IS broken L2R.
my mistake, i re-read it twice to get the point you were making.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-12-2012, 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dribyelruh View Post
A big issue with the flagships is that the differentiation isn't good enough. Different console layouts don't work. Different BO layouts do. Giving every ship the same boff layout is a pretty serious design flaw because it makes only one variant worth taking.

As it stands, people who know how to play the game will just take the science variant with sensor analysis and if they want any of the other special powers they will slot those consoles on their ship.

If Cryptic is able to either see how obviously OP sensor analysis makes a cruiser (or God forbid, learn to just take the word of the entire PvP community when they are united) and takes that out, then people will just take the ship with the most tactical consoles.

These ships would be both far more interesting, far more interesting, and far less redundant if:
  1. Cryptic takes away the extra console slot that is their for no other reason than to make the ships overpowered
  2. Takes away sensor anaysis which only serves to limit people who know how to play to the one variant
  3. And differentiates based on bridge officer layout. For example, take out the Lt. Cmdr. universal, give the engineer variant an engineering Lt. Cmdr., the tactical gains a Lt. Cmdr. tac slot, and the sci variant takes a Lt. Cmdr. sci

Now the ships are "balanced but different", just like every other tier 5 C-store ship. Perhaps just slightly more powerful, but not enough to take away all choice and obsolete all previous C-store ships (and therefore drive those sales through the floor). You no longer have only one variant worth taking, and each ship is more interesting thanks to the bridge officer layouts giving each a more specific role.
No offense, but us Federation players have been drooling over universal bridge slots since the game came out, not just since the Odyssey came out.

Universal bridge consoles add flexibility. Cryptic wants these ships to appeal to all players, not just cruiser captains. Changing the universal slots to fixed slots reduces flexibility (and incidentally, makes them less flexible than the current freebie Odyssey).

I am an engineer. I plan to fly the Tactical variant and still plug an engineering Boff in the universal slot. That way, I don't have to buy TWO ships to get the ONE I DO want (Universal LtCom slot AND escort pet, for example)

I won't comment on Sensor Analysis since I'm not a Science captain aside from saying again, they want this ship to appeal to Science Captains as well.

As for the ships being more powerful... I say it's about time. I never bought many C-store ships because basically they were all alternate choices instead of preferable choices, if that makes any sense. Last ship I bought was the MVAM Prometheus, which doesn't get used much because I considered it a fun toy, not a replacement for my Sovereign at the time. (I fly the freebie Odyssey currently.)
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