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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
03-14-2012, 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Which systems 'near Earth and Vulcan' were a mystery? Diplomatic missions to known races are not 'exploration,' at least not in any conventional sense.
Only 4% of the galaxy had been charted in Kirk's day. Only 19% had been charted in Picard's. The majority of charted territory is unexplored, according to the series Bible, which estimates that there are millions of planets to be made contact with yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
03-14-2012, 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
The Enterprise was returning 20 years later. It was not a first contact... they were boldly going where somebody had gone before.
New life and NEW CIVILIZATIONS. They were encountering new civilization. Learning about a culture they knew next to nothing about.

Quote:
...but honest to goodness, going where no human had gone before exploring? Not so much.
You keep overlooking what the writers wrote. Like in Farpoint. The station was set at the frontier. They were thrust out into the cutting edge of unexplored space. Like it says in the episode.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
03-14-2012, 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baelturath
When we're at the topic of really bad analogies, how about this?
While on your way to the supermarket to fetch the groceries your wife asked for, you need to take a detour due to roadwork. On this detour you drive along a road you've never driven on before and find a really nice looking restaurant. And now the question is: did you discover the restaurant or did you not, even when not explicitly searching for a restaurant?
That's simple. Obviously you discovered the restaurant, but you did not seek it out. You encountered it. You discovered it. There is no arguing that. There was a heck of a lot of encountering and discovering...

The title of the first two episodes: Encounter at Farpoint.

It was not Seeking New Life at Farpoint.

They were not at Farpoint seeking out new life. They encountered it though - two new lifeforms while on another mission.

The first episodes of TNG pretty much proves the point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
03-14-2012, 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synaptic_Firefly
Except we don't have control over the Enterprise.
The commentary you are quoting isn't really relevant to what you are talking about here in your post. My comment is about Virusdancer trying to claim that Picard's crew, in light of his interpretation of season 1 of TNG, did NOT explore or seek out new life or new civilizations.

Quote:
So why does 'boldly going' have to emphasize the entirety of Star Trek?
In STO you shoot your enemies. And send your officers off on AFK browser game style missions. There's no boldly going anywhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
03-14-2012, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
New life and NEW CIVILIZATIONS. They were encountering new civilization. Learning about a culture they knew next to nothing about.

You keep overlooking what the writers wrote. Like in Farpoint. The station was set at the frontier. They were thrust out into the cutting edge of unexplored space. Like it says in the episode.
Deneb IV... the planet mentioned by Kirk in the first episode of TOS.

TNG 2364... but Starfleet had been going there since the 2260s.

Deneb IV's on the edge of the frontier - is not the same as being the frontier.

It's on "this" side of the line...not "that" side of the line.

You keep overlooking that the Bandi had built a station for Starfleet... as in... they were already familiar with Starfleet to have been able to build the station to specs, etc, etc, etc. I mean, c'mon... they were a known species where there had been interaction for over a hundred years.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
03-14-2012, 05:40 AM
To an extent, it really does not matter. Yes, it matters to both sides in the discussion - but it really does not matter in a sense. The difference of opinion is on "to seek out"... there is no difference of opinion on the encounter taking place. Both sides agree that part happens.

In bringing that back in line with the original post, I think both sides would agree that the encounters with new species is handled poorly in the game. We meet them - we either kill them or kill those trying to kill them. Then we forget about them.

There is no diplomacy. There is no second contact. There is no Star Trek beyond that lightest touch of encountering them...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
03-14-2012, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Only 4% of the galaxy had been charted in Kirk's day. Only 19% had been charted in Picard's. The majority of charted territory is unexplored, according to the series Bible, which estimates that there are millions of planets to be made contact with yet.
Have you never looked at the official map? The Federation is on the edge of the galaxy with the Romulans, Klingons, and Tholians on one side and Cardassians and Breen on the other.

The reason the Enterprise was spending most of the time in already explored Federation territory is that by Picard's time the Feds are boxed in.

This is also why Voyager needed to be tossed into the Delta quadrant to find new territory to sustain that series, and why DS9 was a station rather than another exploration series. Even there, though, there was the wormhole to the Gamma quadrant.

Only 19% might be charted, but the other 81% is not accessable without crossing borders. Now some of those surrounding races might have room to explore.....

By the way this does beg a few questions, like exactly how the Borg are in Fed territory.... they are not on any official map I have ever seen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
03-14-2012, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
As I recall, when the Devidian series first launched, Drake's method of addressing you depended on whether or not you'd met him before and which ending you chose in his mission the last time you played it.

That's been taken out because the Devidian series is now chronologically Drake's first appearance but there is data like that which can be tracked.

I suspect it's a pain, which is why I suggest a reputation system.

And we currently have 12 reputation bars in the form of Duty Officer accolades. They just only go in one direction. Having them go in two directions with different consequences is moderately trickier but well worth it IMHO... and can rapidly become multidimensional if you have even just 4 reputation bars that go two ways for a total of 8 maxed out success states and different combinations of the 8 could unlock different set bonuses.

So being pro-Borg (ie. anti-Undine) and being pro-Romulan (ie. say, defending Romulans more than you defend Cardassians) could have a set bonus when maxed out that is distinct from being anti-Borg and pro-Romulan or pro-Borg and anti-Romulan.

WoW goes crazy with 50+ reputation bars that are all somewhat shallow in terms of how they interact with eachother. Give me 4 but let me make the interactions between those 4 bars (8 states since each bar can go positive or negative) really interesting and you have a winner that makes every player unique.
You could do something similar just with accolades, just by introducing "friend" accolades that balance out the "kill" accolades somehow.

That still leaves the problem of hooking them in, though, and in that respect the Assignment system is probably better suited to the task as long as the kill accolades got factored in to the "reputation" somehow. You could do diplomatic or humanitarian assignments that increase your positive score and you could do "hostile" assignments that would increase the negative (or overall) score.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
03-14-2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
You could do something similar just with accolades, just by introducing "friend" accolades that balance out the "kill" accolades somehow.

That still leaves the problem of hooking them in, though, and in that respect the Assignment system is probably better suited to the task as long as the kill accolades got factored in to the "reputation" somehow. You could do diplomatic or humanitarian assignments that increase your positive score and you could do "hostile" assignments that would increase the negative (or overall) score.
Would be nice, but clicking DOFF assignments is something more suited to a Facebook game (ewwww). I'm not attacking the idea per se; I like the idea of having some way of measuring people I've befriended instead of shot at. I just think doing it as a DOFF sorta thing would be a band-aid on a bullet wound, not really address the issue itself.

I mean Worf 359 was a grand tragedy that destroyed 39 ships and killed 11,000 people. I've done worse than that just dealing with B'Vat, and I'm an engineer in a research ship!

PS: Guys, enough with the tangent about the semantics of "To boldly go." Right or wrong, its turned into Am Not / Are Too. Please?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
03-14-2012, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
You really stop in and eat at an interesting restaurant when your wife sends you out for groceries? My guess is that you are divorced, and would be punted out of Star Fleet.
1. No evading and moving goal posts. Just answer the question, please.
2. Did I write in suaheli? Where did I say something about stopping and eating there?
3. I'd stay in Starfleet much longer than you ever could, because you kinda seem to lack the right mindset for the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmera
Yes, your analogy is really bad, lol.
Not nearly as bad as the previous ones.
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