Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Feedback from an Outsider
03-04-2012, 10:07 PM
Please excuse my naivete. STO is the first and only MMO game I've ever played. I'm not interested in MMO culture and jargon. Frankly I'm baffled that these types of games even contain the word "role-playing" in their descriptions since they are anything but, with the gameplay visibly reduced to numbers and people using this jargon openly ("tank" "buff/debuff" et al).

Where is the option for a group of friends to serve as the crew of the same ship? No really, that should be pretty elementary for an MMO Star Trek game. As in, one person handles the helm and another handles weapons, possibly with benefits to all ships functions over a ship handled by one player, or perhaps each player/officer has a support team with skills, et cetera. The more I think about it, the more stupid it seems that this ISN'T an option. Again, please excuse the naivete. I know this requires development and integration and that is really difficult, what with resources going towards new content of pointlessly large planet environments and cut scenes from 1997 with dialogue written for a comic book.

I've heard that not being able to explore your own ship was a huge point of contention, until it was finally implemented. But even then, the whole thing seems to have been added out of spite at players. The bridges are FAR too big, and... why does my character BEAM OUT of the bridge when returning to gameplay? Was this considered? Or was the whole thing treated as a novelty?

Where's the option to ACTUALLY disable an NPC enemy ship, then hail them and offer mercy or even assistance if they stop whatever they were doing and leave the system? One thing I don't remember about Star Trek was everything boiling down to "kill! kill!" I guess ultimately, it's all about combat. From an outside perspective, that's pretty childish. There's no game mechanic allowing for and rewarding exploration, research, or diplomacy. I mean "real research," as in something for science characters to do outside "combat support," not the current game mechanic where you assemble something instead of paying for it. The more I play, the more this game feels like KOTOR combined with a space combat sim, with a Star Trek mod draped over it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-04-2012, 10:18 PM
If it helps at all, with the release of season 5 you no longer need to do any combat at all in game. The DOFF system allows you to lead a diplomatic career while managing crew and acting like what you are . . . a Captain in charge f a crew making decisions in various areas.

I know this does not address your other issues, but I wanted to point this out as a LOT of players in this game seem to be clueless that DOFFs are even there, so this is not a "flame" or "insult" post. Just giving an option for those who wish to avoid combat.

Some fleets in STO also are strictly RP. It IS possible to RP in this game. It's just not that commonly seen since Free-to-Play went live and all of the people joined who simply wanted a different game on their computers to blow stuff up with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-04-2012, 11:56 PM
I'm sure that some players might consider your post pointless or flaming LadyGalaga.
But I agree that STO is in a lot of ways not really Star Trek.
To be hounest I even like the idea of "sharing" the same ship as his crew. It would be cool to have a real Starfleet career starting with the Academy where you meet the other players, then be assigned to a ship under either an other veteran Player who is the captain or an NPC and work your way up to senior BOFF or even your own command. That sounds like Star Trek to me.
I like STO although it has "some" flaws and I sometimes get the impression that canon is a "nice to have"-guidline rather than a set of rules and regulations but it's still fun to me.
But I wish there would be more real exploration or real first contact situations, more to do on your own ship beside placing fancy accolades or trophys that no one will ever see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-05-2012, 12:44 AM
i usually sit on the fence about generally everything, this game is no exception, usually you make a comment from the fence and some people seem to think that your opinion is tainted as "lies" to the norm of what is and what isnt and then they try get you into a childish debate to try prove their point. Speaking generally as an outsider on the fence as i do, there are so many things wrong with this game, but then again no matter how messed up, it is sometimes interesting to just plant ones foot in chaos for a moment from the usual 'let everyone else do it for you' approach in order to get some further knowledge and experience on the said subject.

as far as STO goes about your point, if you have played enough of it over the past year, you would not need to ask the question about the, 'role-playing' element. It is simple that the fact is, that the STF's have been broken into two and a queue system has been introduced in otherwords no one has to write or say a damn thing and as long as there is minimum cooperation, while the rest of it can be damned, its encouraging no teamwork or fairness and with that in mind for the past 2 months coming up since its F2P launch on the 17th jan 2012, the idea of a single person manning a single station with a specific task and duty on a ship would never work, then there are outside issues that can make things harder even if you were to get the idea together (internet connection, trouble with the law, school, chores...), bridge commander may look good as a single player game but on paper to a multiplayer community, its a no no simply because everyone likes to do their own thing as stated above, people only come together in groups and clans only to serve their own interests and if not completed according to that person liking, then why stick around? This is what everyone was raised to believe in a world that has gone mad in real life let alone a game.

While your curious about the issue of bigger need to explore your ship, space and do research or trade and so on, it would require so much time, scope, effort and resources (both man power, money and the right investors or parent company). if Cryptic did as you said and Atari gave them greater latitude to game the game is the best condition possible instead of leaving some really ugly bugs since day one and then just lay new stuff on top, i bet it would still be in development today and possibly the next few years to get it all perfect. Time waits for no one, you either get with it or be left behind, Atari chose for Cryptic to take the former and for a computer game company to choose such a thing, usually ends up in it still being half-built even 2 years and 2 months later and yet the community doesnt see it staring them in the face even so.


I hate doing walls of text, but it can not be helped in order to get the message out that it is not as simple as it looks from someone who observes from a distance and lets it all play out without getting involved to a degree in order to make a more logical and valid point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-05-2012, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGalaga
Please excuse my naivete. STO is the first and only MMO game I've ever played. I'm not interested in MMO culture and jargon. Frankly I'm baffled that these types of games even contain the word "role-playing" in their descriptions since they are anything but, with the gameplay visibly reduced to numbers and people using this jargon openly ("tank" "buff/debuff" et al).

Where is the option for a group of friends to serve as the crew of the same ship? No really, that should be pretty elementary for an MMO Star Trek game. As in, one person handles the helm and another handles weapons, possibly with benefits to all ships functions over a ship handled by one player, or perhaps each player/officer has a support team with skills, et cetera. The more I think about it, the more stupid it seems that this ISN'T an option. Again, please excuse the naivete. I know this requires development and integration and that is really difficult, what with resources going towards new content of pointlessly large planet environments and cut scenes from 1997 with dialogue written for a comic book.

I've heard that not being able to explore your own ship was a huge point of contention, until it was finally implemented. But even then, the whole thing seems to have been added out of spite at players. The bridges are FAR too big, and... why does my character BEAM OUT of the bridge when returning to gameplay? Was this considered? Or was the whole thing treated as a novelty?

Where's the option to ACTUALLY disable an NPC enemy ship, then hail them and offer mercy or even assistance if they stop whatever they were doing and leave the system? One thing I don't remember about Star Trek was everything boiling down to "kill! kill!" I guess ultimately, it's all about combat. From an outside perspective, that's pretty childish. There's no game mechanic allowing for and rewarding exploration, research, or diplomacy. I mean "real research," as in something for science characters to do outside "combat support," not the current game mechanic where you assemble something instead of paying for it. The more I play, the more this game feels like KOTOR combined with a space combat sim, with a Star Trek mod draped over it.
in a pure star trek environment that might work, but this is a Federation at war. Sisko didn't disable the Breen and ask if they would go home and not come back, he destroyed them. it had to be done. I'm not saying there could not be episodes where you can't do that. I was hoping for that in the Axon mission. you do see that a bit when you let the 23rd century B'Vat go. there are other instances where you get to choose, sadly there is no penalty for the wrong choice. in the 2800, you have the choice of blowing away the ferengi or not. it's completely against what Star Fleet Represents to fire, but you don't suffer a penalty to do so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-05-2012, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGalaga
Please excuse my naivete. STO is the first and only MMO game I've ever played. I'm not interested in MMO culture and jargon. Frankly I'm baffled that these types of games even contain the word "role-playing" in their descriptions since they are anything but, with the gameplay visibly reduced to numbers and people using this jargon openly ("tank" "buff/debuff" et al).

Where is the option for a group of friends to serve as the crew of the same ship? No really, that should be pretty elementary for an MMO Star Trek game. As in, one person handles the helm and another handles weapons, possibly with benefits to all ships functions over a ship handled by one player, or perhaps each player/officer has a support team with skills, et cetera. The more I think about it, the more stupid it seems that this ISN'T an option. Again, please excuse the naivete. I know this requires development and integration and that is really difficult, what with resources going towards new content of pointlessly large planet environments and cut scenes from 1997 with dialogue written for a comic book.

I've heard that not being able to explore your own ship was a huge point of contention, until it was finally implemented. But even then, the whole thing seems to have been added out of spite at players. The bridges are FAR too big, and... why does my character BEAM OUT of the bridge when returning to gameplay? Was this considered? Or was the whole thing treated as a novelty?

Where's the option to ACTUALLY disable an NPC enemy ship, then hail them and offer mercy or even assistance if they stop whatever they were doing and leave the system? One thing I don't remember about Star Trek was everything boiling down to "kill! kill!" I guess ultimately, it's all about combat. From an outside perspective, that's pretty childish. There's no game mechanic allowing for and rewarding exploration, research, or diplomacy. I mean "real research," as in something for science characters to do outside "combat support," not the current game mechanic where you assemble something instead of paying for it. The more I play, the more this game feels like KOTOR combined with a space combat sim, with a Star Trek mod draped over it.
- suppose you have to try some community created foundry missions
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-05-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGalaga
Please excuse my naivete. STO is the first and only MMO game I've ever played. I'm not interested in MMO culture and jargon. Frankly I'm baffled that these types of games even contain the word "role-playing" in their descriptions since they are anything but, with the gameplay visibly reduced to numbers and people using this jargon openly ("tank" "buff/debuff" et al).
Unfortunately, MMO-RPG got divorced during the reign of EverQuest. While there are some aspects that allow for RPG'ing in most MMOG's like STO, WoW, EverQuest, etc, majority of players ignore these aspects heavily because it takes time and effort to RP. Sadly most people just want to get in, get their stuff done and get out quickly. I am guilty of this on several occasions as well, however I've put forth more of an RP effort in STO than I have since my days of EverQuest (Drunken dwarven cleric of Brell Serilis FTW!).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Dear OP, you've nailed it but it's nothing new. We've been repeatedly pleading with Cryptic regarding these issues (all or some) since before launch.

In the end, everything is a direct result of Cryptic having to make due with an engine that was not originally developed for the type of game an IP like STAR TREK requires.

By the way, I personally believe KOTOR was/is an excellent game so I'm not sure why you've mentioned it. If STO was actually written and composed like KOTOR, things would've improved especially on the ground.

If by KOTOR you're mistakenly referring to SWTOR, I would still argue that SWTOR offers more interesting ground-based gameplay and a meld between SWTOR's ground game and STO's space combat could be a very good foundation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-05-2012, 09:05 PM
OP, nothing you've said is really "wrong". It's also not new, though.

I would second the suggestion to try some foundry missions. Some of them are just shoot-em-ups, but there are some really well-written missions designed entirely for RPers with plenty of dialogue and puzzles and things to read and places to adventure in the spirit of Trek. A lot of them don't even have combat at all.

Give it a whirl.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-05-2012, 09:57 PM
Most of what I would've said has already been said by others. I do wish, however, to stress one thing.

LadyGalaga, you're not an outsider. You've come, and played the game with us. That makes you one of us, a player fully entitled to have an opinion on the game and share it with others if you'd like.
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