Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Fleet PvP - Rules of engagement

I've been a witness to many situations of players calling each others names, such as cheaters, spammers….etc. We are all aware that is a part of normal beahviour for human species, species we all belong to in real life no matter where we belong above and beyond the magical frontier.
Maybe it's time to create rules of engagement, a code of honor by which we will all engage in space battles. In Top Gun, Maverick shot down Jester but violated two rules of engagement, so the kill didn't count. Should we impose these rules upon ourselves….Probably, but where will be the limit, what are we gonna agree on as rules of engagement?

Should we take real life as starting point or we will act in the spirit of Star Trek federation legacy?
In real life world powers will use any means necessary to crush the opponent, from political to military…we certainly shouldn't move in that direction.

In Star Trek philosophy, The federation has certain rules, but on the other hand, that same federation has to break so many of these rules to defend against as many enemies as you can imagine. Let's just take a look at Klingons as one of the oldest archrivals. Klingons are in their own way a proud, honorable species, but in federation culture this pride and honor doesn't have the same meaning as in Klingon warrior culture. To Klingons honor and pride are mostly expressed by dieing in battle, but in that battle they will also use any means necessary to it's outcome. Should we then stop Klingon faction in STO battles to fight the way they are culturally supposed to just because we on the Federation side feel like it's unfair to us, poor and pure hearted Humans, Vulcans, Andorians……?

Klingons are in the spirit of their own warrior culture using any means to win and in that way Federation is obliged not to die, so we have to use any means to fight off anyone who wants us on our way to higher form of existence.

This is a game, but it's a Star Trek game and people belonging to this community are slightly different than others. That's way it's not so easy to set up rules of engagement.

Starting point should be stopping any kind of cheating by hacking the game engine itself, where developers come in.

Second thing we should consider is so called Pay-to-Win items, ships, consoles…regardless. At this point the game itself allows all the players to get C-point without paying real money for it, so all the players have the possibility to buy C-store items after hours and hours of grinding. On the other hand, players can just play real money and there's no need to grind. Looking at both sides of the problem, maybe C-store items should be a „NO“ in Fleet PvP.

Now the most interesting part – in game items and powers
Consoles – all consoles that are available in game and not from C-store should be allowed, no matter if you were lucky enough to get it in some mission or you just bought it on exchange for energy credits.
Ships like Jem'hadar attack ship and Galor cruiser should be a „Yes“, 'cos they are available in game. You can get them in a box if you're lucky or buy them on exchange for the energy credits you earned.

So called „broken“ powers – you can't buy „broken“ powers in C-store, they are available to everybody. It's a thing the like laws of physics, they are not the same on Earth, on the Sun or in a black hole…not to mention so many other unimaginable options space has to offer to our limited minds. What if you find yourself in a real life battle and an enemy has more advanced technology, or that same enemy only found the way to exploit the same technology you have, just the other better way you didn't think of? If you don't want to die, you have to adjust and fight back. If Klingons are coming in cloaked and s*it hits the fan, are you gonna politely ask them to decloak 15k before they come so you can fight with honor the way you see it? Hell no, you will start hitting them with everything you got, and if Fire at Will + Tetryon glider is everything you got, then just make sure you don't die. You got it ingame, where it was available to everybody else.
You can't shoot down and player with 3 or 4 fleet members on your side? Has is it come to you mind that that player has power levels on shield and auxiliary at 100% all the time and that that players has respeced into shield systems, batteries, inertial dampeners…..etc, that the player has 3 shield distribution duty officers and maybe even all of them purple?

Then there is team play, how many people has even ever heard of team batteries? With team batteries on each ship in the team you can have your 2 power levels at 100% the whole match. I won't hide, we are using it at Ad Infinitum, every 1 minute a different player is poppin' one and power levels are staying up, just stay within 10K.

Ok, to summarize – my opinion is to heavily sanction any kind of hacking the game engine (changing game files) and to keep C-store ships and consoles out of it if the community wants that. Everything else, I really don't care…you can come in a fight with 5 cruisers equipped with FaW + the glider, whatever, i will just try to do my best not to die and to win the fight cos if I don't have it, it's my problem, my fault because I came unprepared to the battle, not you….You did, your brought your game!

Please, give share your opinions, I would like for all of us to make something out of this. I'm tired of whining and players calling each others names, let's get it over with once and for all.

Disclaimer – this is my personal opinion, doesn't have to be an „Ad Infinitum“ fleet opinion. I apologize for any grammar mistakes, English is not my native.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-16-2012, 05:43 AM
I think C-store ships need to be examined individually under their own merits. For example, a Koro't'inga or Venture class ship is a clear upgrade or +1. On the other hand, the Excelsior, while different, doesn't have anything extra. The same can be said of the Defiant or B'rel R. This prohibition on anything c-store would also seem to be at odds with allowing Jem'Hadar or Galor class ships in, since they are not widely available, and grinding the credits for one in game if you didn't win the Cardassian lottery is no different to grinding dilithium in game for a ship or console.

Broken skills being available to all doesn't make them any less annoying to have in game though. It frequently allows the build to do the work for the player who may not be very good. It also allows for an overly paper/scissors/rock approach to team building where second guessing the team set up will count for more than piloting skill. Sure, a faw-glider team would be strong against most, but an otherwise weak FBP team would turn it into mush. This sort of build-gambling doesn't promote skill, just playing the odds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-16-2012, 05:51 AM
This is all theoretical unless there is a way to enforce the rules.

Right now Field Generator consoles stack, which is clearly broken. But can you detect someone using multiple consoles?

Can you detect the KDF Plas. Leech console?

The Voldemort bugs lasted a looooong time because they were hard to detect with certainty.

Unless there is a way to inspect players' setups, and probably a neutral referee to enforce them, it's a hard problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-16-2012, 06:34 AM
In short, there's no way to establish what is "fair" and what is not. There will always be somebody to complain and to try to set the rules the way they play, the way it's most convenient for that player and then call it "fair".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-16-2012, 06:56 AM
If you want it to be fair then all escorts need to be banned. They are way OP.

Also, there would inly be a very snall handful that might follow this. I for one will not. While not.needed I love some of my consoles. They allow me to aggrivate my opponents more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-16-2012, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus_arctos View Post
Now the most interesting part – in game items and powers
Consoles – all consoles that are available in game and not from C-store should be allowed, no matter if you were lucky enough to get it in some mission or you just bought it on exchange for energy credits.
Ships like Jem'hadar attack ship and Galor cruiser should be a „Yes“, 'cos they are available in game. You can get them in a box if you're lucky or buy them on exchange for the energy credits you earned.

So called „broken“ powers – you can't buy „broken“ powers in C-store, they are available to everybody. It's a thing the like laws of physics, they are not the same on Earth, on the Sun or in a black hole…not to mention so many other unimaginable options space has to offer to our limited minds. What if you find yourself in a real life battle and an enemy has more advanced technology, or that same enemy only found the way to exploit the same technology you have, just the other better way you didn't think of? If you don't want to die, you have to adjust and fight back. If Klingons are coming in cloaked and s*it hits the fan, are you gonna politely ask them to decloak 15k before they come so you can fight with honor the way you see it? Hell no, you will start hitting them with everything you got, and if Fire at Will + Tetryon glider is everything you got, then just make sure you don't die. You got it ingame, where it was available to everybody else.
You can't shoot down and player with 3 or 4 fleet members on your side? Has is it come to you mind that that player has power levels on shield and auxiliary at 100% all the time and that that players has respeced into shield systems, batteries, inertial dampeners…..etc, that the player has 3 shield distribution duty officers and maybe even all of them purple?
So, you are allowing the most expensive of the CStore ships (Galor and JAS), but disallowing the extremely cheap ones... interesting...

In any case, lets look at your flawed logic.

For the Galor, it take CStore points to buy keys. But, you accept the fact that you can get the key for free by buying them on exchange. So even though someone else already bought them with CPoints, you spent nothing, which is what you care about it seems. So using that logic, you can farm dilithium and trade that for CPoints, then buy anything you want from the CStore, spending absolutely nothing yourself (though someone else paid money for the CPoints, but you already pointed out you dont care about that fact). So really, you can't ban any of the CStore items, since they are all available in game for free by your own logic.

That said, this wont go anywhere. I applaud the attempt to try to make things better, but with no way to enforce it, it's meaningless
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-16-2012, 07:18 AM
In every single multiplayer game I've ever played, this kind of mentality was what decimated the community.
Ban consoles, ban ships, ban this and that, everything that's at least slightly unique, and in the end you're only allowed to fight with vanilla tier4 cruisers and antiproton beams.

It turns the game boring and colorless.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-16-2012, 07:19 AM
@Sardoc - You are right about the logic, i agree.
I am not banning anything explicitly, even from C-store. As i mentioned, English is not my native so maybe a sentence setup is not right, i apologize for that.

In my opinion, i would allow everything except hacking the game, I was just trying to start this topic to see the opinions of others, not just the whiners when they lose a match.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-16-2012, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus_arctos View Post
@Sardoc - You are right about the logic, i agree.
I am not banning anything explicitly, even from C-store. As i mentioned, English is not my native so maybe a sentence setup is not right, i apologize for that.

In my opinion, i would allow everything except hacking the game, I was just trying to start this topic to see the opinions of others, not just the whiners when they lose a match.
Do people actually 'hack' the game?... I didnt think that was possible, most of the logic/validation would be on the server, which players dont have access to...

Sure, there are exploits... double shields... the old jem shield + shield DOff bug... are you referring to stuff like that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-16-2012, 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardoc
Do people actually 'hack' the game?... I didnt think that was possible, most of the logic/validation would be on the server, which players dont have access to...

Sure, there are exploits... double shields... the old jem shield + shield DOff bug... are you referring to stuff like that?
Hacking as trying to change any game files or creating another software that directly influences your abilities in the game.

Exploits like double shields, jem shield...., i personally wouldn't use it, but i can't stop others from using it and sure wouldn't whine about it. Only if it affects the game the way jem shields did, made it unstable and unplayable.
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