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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-18-2012, 12:48 AM
Every MMO I've ever played is the same way, so nothing new here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-18-2012, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its not inaccessible to new players, new players don't learn how to pvp when pvp is simple. leveling to cap and and then trying it is an absolutely terrible way of going about it, you get absolutely slaughtered because its 1000 times more challenging then any other content you have been exposed too. its the reason there are so many butthurt pvp haters on the forum.

leveling to cap is a good idea, you get a good feel for the whole game. then make another character and start pvping as soon as you can when its simple and you only have 3 to 5 station powers to keep track of. try doing the majority of your leveling with pvp, and when that character gets to level cap you will be awesome at it, and about 7000 times better at everything in the game then you were when you caped your first character.
QFT. I also learned the hard way by not doing any pvp as i leveled my first toon. I started to learn the ropes the hard way, then decided to start a second toon and found that it was WAY easier to pvp as i leveled. If you really are willing to learn, I'd do as he recommends and start a second toon or a different type (engineer is pretty forgiving) and just pvp as much as possible as you level. At Lt, it will feel like submarine warfare due to the pace being so slow since you only have a few abilities to use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-18-2012, 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
welcome to pvp!

the learning curve is steep. but the rewards are worth it.

join the opvp channel, join a pvp fleet.....
Well, the transient reward of having a really good game and some wonderful wins does make PvP worth it for me but... I wouldn't mind seeing some actual rewards, like PvP-sets. Or rankings. Rankings would be great, because then the auto-queue system could actually start to put players in groups depending on their rank rather than just randomly. It would make things more balanced, and PvP sets gained from PvP'ing would give people some tangible rewards.

Still, I'm happy with the energy credits, dilithium, and the great feeling when everyone starts to honestly type 'gg' at the end of a game, as in, good game from both sides, not just good game from one side that slaughtered the other side and then spams 'gg' as a matter of courtesy or possibly insult.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-18-2012, 05:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleve
Well, the transient reward of having a really good game and some wonderful wins does make PvP worth it for me but... I wouldn't mind seeing some actual rewards, like PvP-sets. Or rankings. Rankings would be great, because then the auto-queue system could actually start to put players in groups depending on their rank rather than just randomly. It would make things more balanced, and PvP sets gained from PvP'ing would give people some tangible rewards.

Still, I'm happy with the energy credits, dilithium, and the great feeling when everyone starts to honestly type 'gg' at the end of a game, as in, good game from both sides, not just good game from one side that slaughtered the other side and then spams 'gg' as a matter of courtesy or possibly insult.
I don't know anyone in any fleet who would spam GG as an insult. It's mainly just good sportsmanship. Like opposing teams shaking hands and saying good game after a match in any sport.

I would like to add, that if this happens to you (getting stomped by a premade), ask them for advice. At the very least they will help you out with a build to get you started, and possibly do some private duels/testing to help you get your basic tactics down. It all depends on your willingness to accept constructive criticism and to listen to advice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-18-2012, 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnehs View Post
[...] I honestly see no reason to bother putting in any effort into researching whats going on and why I seem to be getting so owned. [...]
Why should I bother to learn this complicated game when its just a chore to learn and not fun to play while you are doing so?
I... I have no words. I had to read this post again to see if you were really serious or just joking.
Do you honestly think that you deserve ANYTHING else but getting owned if you outright refuse to learn? Being a newbie is fine, but you're saying that it's the game's fault that you don't win at it while you refuse to learn the mechanics, against people who know them inside-out.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on an MMORPG forum.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-18-2012, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gachatar
I... I have no words. I had to read this post again to see if you were really serious or just joking.
Do you honestly think that you deserve ANYTHING else but getting owned if you outright refuse to learn? Being a newbie is fine, but you're saying that it's the game's fault that you don't win at it while you refuse to learn the mechanics, against people who know them inside-out.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on an MMORPG forum.
Someone not wanting to play because its no fun to get owned, and the game doesn nothing to educate and prepare you for pvp, and whats more you have about 3 seconds TTL?

I say you are a clueless moron if you cannot understand that perspective. kkthxbai!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-18-2012, 08:33 AM
To be fair nothing in many games will quite prepare you for pvp. Unless you just do it.
We all start at the bottom OP. It's what you do to get out of the bottom that counts and how you conduct yourself in the process that matters.

I was going to say that becoming skilled is it's own reward (cause it is. It's one more feather in your virtual cap if nothing else) because as you get better you'll probably lose less often.
There's a few really stellar guides around here I'd suggest that you read, Husanak's Escort thread, Matteo716's science thread, and my own Cruiser thread will at least get you started down the right path.

You'll find that once you adjust your build, and tactics that you'll probably do far better. Not only that, but any lolpve aspects of the game giving you trouble pretty much stop doing so in short order.
I've killed T5 player ships in a Shuttle before. You don't want to be victim to a shuttle do you?

I don't understand younger gamers. Rather than learning the game, they'd rather the game get adjusted to them. That makes no sense and defeats the purpose. Especially in pvp since well let's face it people that -want- to get better -will- invariably get better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-18-2012, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnehs View Post
Someone not wanting to play because its no fun to get owned, and the game doesn nothing to educate and prepare you for pvp, and whats more you have about 3 seconds TTL?

I say you are a clueless moron if you cannot understand that perspective. kkthxbai!
That's not what you said, though. You said that you can't be bothered to learn and do your research. I find this as an insult to me and every other people who spent countless hours reading hundreds of forum threads here, reading the STOWiki inside-out, and experimenting with gameplay mechanics.

So what if the game doesn't spoonfeed you every single thing about PvP? Show me ONE game that does, and I'll show you a dead game. Why? Because it would be a pointless endeavor in the first place because PvP is changed and evolved by the people day by day. The players came up with such strategies that the developers didn't even think of. An in-game tutorial would be outdated by the time the first patch comes out. It would be completely pointless.

MMORPGs are about knowledge first, especially in PvP. Gear and skill only comes after that.

ps: it's a proof of your refusal to learn the game that you made this whine thread instead of a thread where you ask how to improve your game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-18-2012, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmr1580 View Post
I don't know anyone in any fleet who would spam GG as an insult. It's mainly just good sportsmanship. Like opposing teams shaking hands and saying good game after a match in any sport.

I would like to add, that if this happens to you (getting stomped by a premade), ask them for advice. At the very least they will help you out with a build to get you started, and possibly do some private duels/testing to help you get your basic tactics down. It all depends on your willingness to accept constructive criticism and to listen to advice.
I've already had a number of those conversations. I've been really pleasantly surprised by the community so far, people seem always ready with information, tips and tricks, some practice rounds in challenge-mode, etc. I wouldn't have been able to improve much in PvP without it.

My GG-gripe is probably more a matter of perception. Say I'm in an arena vs. a bunch of klingons, and the game just brims with theta, tachyon drones, gravitons, and a general screenfilling amount of other carrier spawns, and the game ends with spawn-camping, some on the fed side just give up and stop moving. 'GG' really doesn't seem appropriate for that. It's not as if the winning side was in any way challenged, and in a match like that they'll probably even play less skilful than they're capable of cause you get sloppy against opponents that don't offer actual resistance. Perhaps GG isn't intended as an insult at those moments, and its pretty much customary; but it just doesn't seem very appropriate. Nobody in those matches plays at the height of their ability.

But I guess there isn't much else to say in those situations anyway. I really don't mind the customary GG, but on a few occasions the contrast just seems so jarring between what a really good game looks like and what just happened that I can't help but feel the irony seeping from the words. Of course, typed words are neutral, so reading intention into them is all in the eye of the beholder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-18-2012, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gachatar
That's not what you said, though. You said that you can't be bothered to learn and do your research. I find this as an insult to me and every other people who spent countless hours reading hundreds of forum threads here, reading the STOWiki inside-out, and experimenting with gameplay mechanics.

So what if the game doesn't spoonfeed you every single thing about PvP? Show me ONE game that does, and I'll show you a dead game. Why? Because it would be a pointless endeavor in the first place because PvP is changed and evolved by the people day by day. The players came up with such strategies that the developers didn't even think of. An in-game tutorial would be outdated by the time the first patch comes out. It would be completely pointless.

MMORPGs are about knowledge first, especially in PvP. Gear and skill only comes after that.

ps: it's a proof of your refusal to learn the game that you made this whine thread instead of a thread where you ask how to improve your game.
As I said, if you actually read my OP; this is a game. PVP is meant to be fun, if its fun, its worth learning more about so you can play better. This game says, learn to play before you step into PVP, and have the best ship/gear/spec and all the knowledge to use these tools. Or, go in without these things and get killed in 3 seconds. 3 seconds?

So, you argue "lol l2p noob" and I argue "why the crap should I bother to learn when its going to be a pointless forum grind, followed by a pointless gear/item grind - all the while you are having no fun while being ended in less time it takes to blink." Is this not a game? Is it not meant to be fun? I'll give you some free MMO advice. Low TTL = not fun = ***** game. Its a fact, which seems to elude Cryptik and, apparently, you.

End of. Thats whats wrong with this game. Nobody is asking for some herp derp this is how you pvp for dummies guide. I am a competent gamer, with a long list of MMO's played. But how the hell can I have a chance to learn and play in those 3 seconds it takes me to die? The *only* way to pvp in this game is to research for some hours, tune spec, BOs, ship loadout, playstyle... then play. How about some system where you could actually, i dunno, play the fking game to have some fun and learn as you go? I don't play some casual F2P mmo to trawl through forums all day. I want to queue up and have some fun. Isn't that the point in gaming?

Talking of showing me a dead game, 20 min pvp queues in this one. In a free to play game? Is it any wonder? I'm not surprised given my experience. I bet for every thread like mine there are 100 others who just log off and probably never play again. I mean, why would you? 20 min queues to be 3shot by other folk? Nah. No thanks! World of Tanks is F2P, 30 player pvp matches (STO: 8). Queues take less than 3 seconds on average. Something to wonder about!

At least most people replying can actually see the perspective. You're just a moron.

/soundlyownedwithreason
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