Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-18-2012, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
I've already given up on us getting that. Best we can hope for is a Buff. Cryptic won't nerf something people spent a crap ton of money on. Especially since the people that bought it paid for the power.


Something else I don't think cryptic realizes, they make a TON of money on us pvpers. We shell out for Respecs, more often than an rper/pveer buys a ship. Does anyone care to guess that pvps, how much $ they spent on respecs? I shudder at the thought.
Probably because if you cater to PvPers, you lose every other kind of player. Because, generally speaking, PvPers have impossibly high demands.

Not to mention, the horrors of balancing an ever-changing and evolving game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries2507 View Post
dont get me wrong and im simply playing devils advocate here but...


...why update them for free when you can sell them with the updates at full price and sell the earlier ones at a lower price as "classic" models...

...its incredibly poor long term business practice but lets be honest here if we get another two years out of STO before they shut down the server as unprofitable they are going to keep nickle and diming us for every last thing in the game.
/This...

They will All, eventually have T-6 versions available in the C-Store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-18-2012, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries2507 View Post
dont get me wrong and im simply playing devils advocate here but...


...why update them for free when you can sell them with the updates at full price and sell the earlier ones at a lower price as "classic" models...

...its incredibly poor long term business practice but lets be honest here if we get another two years out of STO before they shut down the server as unprofitable they are going to keep nickle and diming us for every last thing in the game.
Actually... I may even be willing to live with that. Not happy, no, but happier than seeing older ships being relegated to second choices because of their stats. I don't think many Cruiser Captains intend to fly the Odyssey for its looks - that's not saying that I don't like its looks. But it's not a Sovereign, for example. e.g. a movie or TV canon ship. It's simply that players want to play Startrek Onine because they want to feel like their favorite Captains, in their favorite ships.

The same reason we needed the Galaxy Retrofit, the Excelsior Retrofit and the Defiant Retrofit - to play these fan favorites at endgame without losing any effectiveness.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-18-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Unlike cars we can't upgrade our ships ingame. I can build a 96 Firebird that will beat the pants off of a new mustang GT for about 1/3rd the cost of a Mustang Gt infact for that cost I could make it beat up on unsuspecting Corvettes. You can't do that with ships in game.
Also, we paid $ for in game items. If we are going to endorse pay to win then the $ I paid should be at least > the normal tier five ships.
Fine we'll play it this way, leave them lesser than the Oddys, and Bortas... but at least make them>>>> vanilla T5s.

Things have to be balanced in games, especially games with pvp. Otherwise there's no point.
You can upgrade ships, new consoles, weapons, boffs, shields, etc. There is always going to be something bigger and better down the road though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-18-2012, 10:29 AM
Didn't geko say that if the Oddessy and Borta's become the most powerful he himself with nerf them? That's one thing on Geko's record I wouldn't minding him nerfing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-18-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadeComplete
Didn't geko say that if the Oddessy and Borta's become the most powerful he himself with nerf them? That's one thing on Geko's record I wouldn't minding him nerfing.
he should nerf them to the power of the brell
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-18-2012, 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadeComplete
Didn't geko say that if the Oddessy and Borta's become the most powerful he himself with nerf them? That's one thing on Geko's record I wouldn't minding him nerfing.
He also said they aren't going to be a new standard. He also said they're not going to make older ships better. He also said he's running out of options on how to design new ships.

He's painted himself into a corner design-wise.

I'm certainly not keen on spending money on ships that the developers admit they're running out of options for and suggest they may nerf after purchase.

BUYER BEWARE!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-18-2012, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
He also said they aren't going to be a new standard. He also said they're not going to make older ships better. He also said he's running out of options on how to design new ships.

He's painted himself into a corner design-wise.

I'm certainly not keen on spending money on ships that the developers admit they're running out of options for and suggest they may nerf after purchase.

BUYER BEWARE!
sadly this is true, despite the frankly insane amount of fan made ships available CBS simply will not allow them to be brought into the game apparently to preserve show canon on the franchise to one degree or anlther.

but look at some of the designs here (ok some are awful but bear with it to check them all out) Both Canon from TOS, Enterprise and the TNG era's

http://trekazoid.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-afterm...in-fleet-ships
http://planetside.firenebula.com/startrek/ships.php

as i said some are....awful but some are frankly amazing and should to one degree or another be made for the game.
I for one would pay good money to have a NX-Prototype as a shuttlecraft or a Warp Delta class T1 escort or perhaps U.S.S. curry style Excelsior retrofit bit that catamaran looking prow and nacelle config.

are they to everybody's taste? no not at all but they are unique and to some they are things of beauty and should be embraced.

there should be no limit to imagination but sadly both canon and copyright say otherwise and thats just a little bit sad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-18-2012, 03:31 PM
What we need is a Rear Adm Upper half ship group.
And move the past T5 ships that cost 1,500C and under to that group.
And keep the Vice Admiral ships that cost 2,000C and up under vice Admiral.

Doing this would make the best ships be under Vice Admiral and the older flag ships have there own category.

Also cryptic said if the oddys new method of separation and reintegration works out they might try and make a new version for the retrofit galaxy and Prometheus.

The Prometheus and the other C-store ship doe feel a little over priced to me but that is just me.

The whole ship list feels a little unsorted. "This is how I would of sorted the ships."
T-1 Should be TOS and Back "Ensign Rank ships"
T-2 Should be TMP "Lieutenant Commander Rank ships"
T-3 Enterprise-B, C Era "Commander Rank ships"
T-4 Enterprise-D Era "Commander Rank ships"
T-5 Deep Space nine/ Voyager Eras "Rear Admiral, Lower Half and Brigadier General Rank ships"
T-6 Sovereign Class Era "Rear Admiral, Upper Half and Major General Rank ships"
T-7 Modern ships "Vice Admiral and Lieutenant General Rank ships"

Also I think a ship refit system would really help and a feel of star trek realism to the game.
Such as these well known ship examples.
Constitution class
T-1 TOS Constitution class ship refit-able into T-2 Constitution class ship.
Excelsior class
T-2 Excelsior Class "Non trans-warp" refit-able into T-3 Cloak detection excelsior refit class refit-able into
T-4 Excelsior Class "Hood" refit
T-3 Ambassador class refit-able into T-4 Galaxy Class refit-able into T-5 Dominion wars Galaxy class Refit-able into T-6 Galaxy-X Class "Dreadnought"

Ship balancing fix
-Scout ships: "Fast moving, Lightly armed, ECM, Longest range sensors"
-Destroyers: "Fast moving, Lightly armored, Heavily armed."
-Light cruiser: "Slightly faster and slightly less armor then heavy cruisers and longer range sensors then heavy cruisers."
-Medium cruisers "balanced ships"
-Heavy Cruisers "Heavily armored ships and moderately armed."
-Dreadnoughts "C-Store ships Heavily armed and well armored."
-Battle ships "C-Store ships Moving Fortresses Max fire power and max armor and slowest."

Example ships
Scout ships: Oberth class, Miranda class "variant", Nova class
Light cruisers: Intrepid class and Miranda class
Heavy Cruisers: Constitution class, Excelsior class, Ambassador class, Galaxy class
Destroyers: Defiant class, Achilles class
Dreadnought: Sovereign Class, Galaxy-X Class

"Game was down and got a little bored.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-19-2012, 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Probably because if you cater to PvPers, you lose every other kind of player. Because, generally speaking, PvPers have impossibly high demands.

Not to mention, the horrors of balancing an ever-changing and evolving game.
All we demand, is a game that isn't trash to play in.

RIFT pretty much does -all- of their balancing around PvP and it's going very strong. Much stronger than sto has ever been.
You don't have to lose every player, if you actually balance the game. Infact it's likely you'll gain players. Gamers as a whole don't enjoy just facerolling through pve. Especially if the pvp is lacking.
That's why STO never took off. It doesn't do anything well beyond basic starship movement other than look pretty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by utio
You can upgrade ships, new consoles, weapons, boffs, shields, etc. There is always going to be something bigger and better down the road though.
That's not nearly the same thing as upgrading a car. There's no significant investment difference in STO from ship to ship. Also, this doesn't explain why our older Cstore ships aren't out right -better- than non cstore equivalents. They need to be if the Oddy is going to be Pay To Win Greater, then we should be at least Pay To Win Lesser.
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