Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-24-2012, 03:59 AM
i like the idea of a torpedo that drains shields and works with spread. brings the discussion about torpedo boats to whole new level.

but the console is basically OP, thats like a tier 5+2 in my opinion.

Also right now there is no place for another cruiser on either side. A sci cruiser maybe, but thats not very popular i'm afraid.

Maybe as a klingon captain ship, with the mentioned torpedo as a weapon like the quad cannon or the bio warhead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 12
03-24-2012, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
i like the idea of a torpedo that drains shields and works with spread. brings the discussion about torpedo boats to whole new level.

but the console is basically OP, thats like a tier 5+2 in my opinion.

Also right now there is no place for another cruiser on either side. A sci cruiser maybe, but thats not very popular i'm afraid.

Maybe as a klingon captain ship, with the mentioned torpedo as a weapon like the quad cannon or the bio warhead.
The console has a MAJOR drawback, if you look at it. It increases the power drain of your weapons when you fire them. That could be potentially dangerous. But I also like the torpedo idea, which I completely forgot about TBH. XD
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# 13
03-24-2012, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleto_Deadman
I am still waiting for the Chancellor class ships to make it in game as a T-5 Vor'Cha.


We also need a Negh'Var Refit "Sword of Kahless" class... but alas, we went a different way with the new flagships.
You can do a very nice Qang (Chancellor) class by putting a Tor'kaht main hull on a Vor'cha retrofit. Matches the cover art from the IKS Gorkon almost perfectly.

As for the K'vort... well, I've long thought that the so-called B'rel Retrofit is really the K'vort. Scale aside, it's a giant BoP (look at the relative hull and weapons!). Would just be nice if there was a better scaling option so it could be a similar size to the Hegh'ta.
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# 14
03-25-2012, 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
I've been looking forward to flying a K'vort for years now and I was rather frustrated that it was mentioned in "The Path to 2409" but not in the game at all.

However I feel the need to add a few comments if you don't mind:

the size was always around 300 meters, even the appearently gigantic ones in "The Defector" were no bigger than that as opposed to the Vor'cha's roughly 480 meters.
The Bounty was not such a big ship, she was a small model, otherwise she would not have fit onto the screen when landed.

There has been dicussion about the wing-position thingy and it appears they can't make it optional and even worse the models there are rigged up like this can't be converted back.
So they'd have to make a new model (or use a backup of an older model) and then decide where to set the wings and then keep them there.
The only other option I see would be to put two (or more) alternate wing positions into the the game's tailor so that just like you can decide which type of module to stick on an RSV or Nebula you can chose to use wings that are for example "up" "down" or "horizontal".
Appearance-wise I'd propose slight changes to the model compared to the smaller BoPs anyway to make it clear this is not the same ship:
add a few rows of windows to the ship like the K't'inga has and also put in a few visible escape pods (we know the K'vort has those from DS9:"Penumbra") similar to those visible on the alternate Negh'var skin.


I like your special ability idea very much and I'd like to add an idea for an alternate one, not because mine is "better" or anyhing like that but I think it would fit the K'vort as well:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...1414h50m37.png

these scenes are from "Redemption" pt.1 and as you can see the torpedo fired at Gowron's ship doesn't even resemble a Photon Torpedo.
So my proposal is not a console but a weapon (like the Bio-Neural Torpedo) that does not do kinetic damage but energy-based damage (after that BortaS' port shields were down) so the K'vort has something that is somewhat unique to her that is based on the shows.

*EDIT: I took a close look at yur stats and I'm a bit puzzled:
-the ship has the same turnrate as the Vor'cha and more hull
-it has 10 console slots instead of the regular 9
is this supposed to be a "plus one" ship?*
I like this idea, a console similar to the "photonic shockwave" torpedo would be good, a torpedo with Charged Particle Burst for example.

I think a variable geometry BoP is perfectly doable however. The Garumba can switch modes at will. I don't see why a BoP couldn't raise or lower it's wings for siege mode or normal attack.

The problem the K'vort presents however is we've really got no idea just how distinct from the B'rel it is sccalewise. It's only been refered to on screen once that I know of, and I think that was in DS9 in an Ocudagram. Both ships that are alleged to be B'rel or K'vort have changed sizes dramaticly over the course of TNG and DS9, and in the movies even Kruge's Bird of Prey has been many, many sizes. When we first see it, at absolutely dwarfs a freighter, but when hanging opposite Enteprise, is very much dwarfed in turn. Then in IV we see it utterly dwarf a whaling ship, yet were it that big when it landed, it wouldn't have fit into Golden Gate Park without flattening trees and leaving much larger footprints.

Now, if you fly B'rels in a "wings up" position by a Galaxy, it's pretty close to the "accepted" K'vort size from TNG, and the wingspan is greater than that of an Excelsior saucer, making it clearly much, much larger than a movie era BoP, of which Chang's was the inspiration for the enhanced cloak. If anything, I'd say the B'rel R is a mish-mash of Chang's BoP and the K'vort. But with estimated on screen lengths ranging from 50 to 700 meters, there's no "right" and "wrong" size for a B'rel/K'vort. Indeed, many of the supposed sources like Encyclopedia and Fact Files are more attempts at retconning this than something intended by the producers.
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# 15
03-25-2012, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
The problem the K'vort presents however is we've really got no idea just how distinct from the B'rel it is sccalewise. It's only been refered to on screen once that I know of, and I think that was in DS9 in an Ocudagram. Both ships that are alleged to be B'rel or K'vort have changed sizes dramaticly over the course of TNG and DS9, and in the movies even Kruge's Bird of Prey has been many, many sizes. When we first see it, at absolutely dwarfs a freighter, but when hanging opposite Enteprise, is very much dwarfed in turn. Then in IV we see it utterly dwarf a whaling ship, yet were it that big when it landed, it wouldn't have fit into Golden Gate Park without flattening trees and leaving much larger footprints.

Now, if you fly B'rels in a "wings up" position by a Galaxy, it's pretty close to the "accepted" K'vort size from TNG, and the wingspan is greater than that of an Excelsior saucer, making it clearly much, much larger than a movie era BoP, of which Chang's was the inspiration for the enhanced cloak. If anything, I'd say the B'rel R is a mish-mash of Chang's BoP and the K'vort. But with estimated on screen lengths ranging from 50 to 700 meters, there's no "right" and "wrong" size for a B'rel/K'vort. Indeed, many of the supposed sources like Encyclopedia and Fact Files are more attempts at retconning this than something intended by the producers.
Considering the B'rel as it's used in this game is based on the description in the Encyclopedia, meaning small =B'rel, I'd say we can just as easily use that for "large = K'vort".
And while we only saw the K'vort on scree in "Yesterday's Enterprise" I think there is something to consider here:
In that universe everything looked like it does in the Prime Universe with a few minor exceptions.
The Galaxy class lacks any exterior changes so why should the K'vort of this universe look any different, particularly scalewise?
So the 300 meter length and roughly 350 meter width would work perfectly IMO, particularly since we know the only appearance where the large BoPs were presumed to be larger for a while turned out to be a misunderstanding, as "our" Suricata proved:

http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=274#more-274

so I'd say the scale is pretty clear.

*EDIT: that the wings be fixed in combat (in a setting between the "up" of the small ships out of combat and the "down" in combat) would also set the two ships apart and there's the obvious proble that the motors that would have to move thos gigantig wings would have to be equally massive too, so there'd be a lot of space and weight saved for something more useful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-26-2012, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Considering the B'rel as it's used in this game is based on the description in the Encyclopedia, meaning small =B'rel, I'd say we can just as easily use that for "large = K'vort".
And while we only saw the K'vort on scree in "Yesterday's Enterprise" I think there is something to consider here:
In that universe everything looked like it does in the Prime Universe with a few minor exceptions.
The Galaxy class lacks any exterior changes so why should the K'vort of this universe look any different, particularly scalewise?
So the 300 meter length and roughly 350 meter width would work perfectly IMO, particularly since we know the only appearance where the large BoPs were presumed to be larger for a while turned out to be a misunderstanding, as "our" Suricata proved:

http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=274#more-274

so I'd say the scale is pretty clear.

*EDIT: that the wings be fixed in combat (in a setting between the "up" of the small ships out of combat and the "down" in combat) would also set the two ships apart and there's the obvious proble that the motors that would have to move thos gigantig wings would have to be equally massive too, so there'd be a lot of space and weight saved for something more useful.
Well the Hegh'ta is pretty much the size of a K'vort, and those wings move just fine. Also, I'd imagine space-age hydraulics rather than motors would be more efficient.

I do like the idea of a "wings up" BoP though, a cruisery BoP as opposed to an escorty BoP would be full of win.

Edit: Dammit, now I need to go and watch "The Defector", too awesome to think about and not watch.
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# 17
03-26-2012, 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
Well the Hegh'ta is pretty much the size of a K'vort, and those wings move just fine. Also, I'd imagine space-age hydraulics rather than motors would be more efficient.
If ships were one-dimensional objects that would be right.
However the same length does not equal the same size

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/740...akvortcomp.jpg

And there's a difficulty with the purpose:
while the smaller (as in escort-type) ships used the wings for maneuverability in atmospheres, which I think is still possible with the Hegh'ta, I seriously doubt the larger K'vort-type BoPs do so as well.
It's more likely they're part of the heat dissipation needed for those big nasty guns and the power lines supplying them so you'd be in a better position if don't try to move you heat radiators.
Because when they are tied closely into the other systems you use efficiency for a feature you are unlikely to need since these ships don't seem to be used for atmospheric operations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
I do like the idea of a "wings up" BoP though, a cruisery BoP as opposed to an escorty BoP would be full of win.

Edit: Dammit, now I need to go and watch "The Defector", too awesome to think about and not watch.
Well, I always thought the near-horizontal orientation made them look a whole lot more menacing.
And a meancing and graceful cruiser is exactly what we need, so we can show Romulans and Feds alike what it means to face off against a Klingon warrior.
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# 18 the BIrd of Predator
03-26-2012, 08:03 AM
Really when you think of the most kick butt Bird of Prey, one word, a Kvort class. As soon as Wesley said three Kvort class crusiers (not even considered a BOP lol) in ST TNG Yesterday's Enterprise. you can see the expressions of the Bridge crew. Picard pratically went in his pants. they are mega huge BOPS and most captianed by in your face captians that don't even need to hide to kick the pride of the Federation's behind. Giving these as ships for Klingons is like giving the Feds Enterprise J as seen in ST Enterprise. Over powered machines of death.
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# 19
03-26-2012, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake477
Really when you think of the most kick butt Bird of Prey, one word, a Kvort class. As soon as Wesley said three Kvort class crusiers (not even considered a BOP lol) in ST TNG Yesterday's Enterprise. you can see the expressions of the Bridge crew. Picard pratically went in his pants. they are mega huge BOPS and most captianed by in your face captians that don't even need to hide to kick the pride of the Federation's behind. Giving these as ships for Klingons is like giving the Feds Enterprise J as seen in ST Enterprise. Over powered machines of death.
Don't go overboard.
The Enterprise was still able to blow one up so they can't be that good.
So realistically speaking they're still a decent candidate for T5, but a reasonable T5 not some OP BS.
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# 20
03-26-2012, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Don't go overboard.
The Enterprise was still able to blow one up so they can't be that good.
So realistically speaking they're still a decent candidate for T5, but a reasonable T5 not some OP BS.
Not one, they landed a few Photons on their shields first. Still, you have a bit of a point... except for that that was an alternate timeline. In THIS timeline, two K'Vorts can smack down a Vor'Cha until they drop their shields.
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