Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
03-25-2012, 04:21 AM
This change was in my opinion a good idea, the interior is someplace I rarely visit and something apart from seeing a few trophies from time to time is good, but when a lot of DOFF missions which are sector dependant are located in a fractured interior (and visiting 3 areas to see what is availabe in every sector, every 4 hours is tedious).

The original idea of visit my ship one time per day is good, ┐could be possible to make all sector dependant assignments stay in the normal window and those intended to be daily stay in the ship, as is the ship where another location?

Also I have some issues with the bartender assignments (Pour a Drink and Special Reserve), in three days I only could make one time the Special Reserve and I've made Pour a Drink four times per day or more and every time I receive the same drink (I'm using Rulian Mazan for those assignments).

Adding some places for the trophies, principaly for floor trophies could improve the interior, also decorations..., and if possible as others as commented make the three parts of the ship one location linked by teleport.

(Excuse my english but it's not my native language, thanks)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
03-25-2012, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Still missing the point.

Breaking up all of the missions is still a step backwards.

One list where we can compare everything available to make informed choices is the point several are trying to make.


Unless one of the specific goals with these changes was to obfuscate things and purposefully slow players down.

If so, please explain why.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaele501
The downside I see to the proposed change of adding buttons to the department heads to show the missions without going inside the ship is that again it breaks the flow of information.

All of the non specific shipboard ones should be available on the personal tab, let the buttons on the department heads act as a filter to show only those missions when you are trying to focus on a specific type of XP , but let the personal tab show the complete range.

I don't mind the ones for making prototypes,consoles, cooking and bar-tending and the like being inside the ship as long as they aren't sector based, but everything else should be shown on the personal tab in full.

Anything else breaks the flow of information and just makes it harder to compare assignment A against B

This.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid View Post
What is the game to you? Seriously.

A game is a series of interesting choices. In order for choices to be interesting they must be (1) different, (2) comprehensible. If they are not different, they fail to be interesting because the choice didn't matter. If they are not comprehensible, they fail to be interesting because you couldn't make an informed choice.

The current implementation fails on comprehensibility. There is too much information that takes too much time to get to make an informed choice.

Once it fails to be a series of interesting choices, it becomes clicking for credit.

And this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieboysw View Post
Yes it is early in the stages but it is a good step forward and opens up a lot of potential for future ship interior and social zone unique DOFF missions.
Ship interior is pointless, unless I can continue to travel while I'm inside the ship.

Otherwise it's stolen functionality from another system, to force/create the illusion of functionality in a place that has no other functionality.

By all means, add the new contacts - but why steal it completely from the previous method?


This is the same type of thought process that led to the jury rig "functionality" that was given to Sci Console Slots by stealing good consoles from Engineering. Instead of actually making useful Sci Consoles to begin with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
03-25-2012, 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum

Ship interior is pointless, unless I can continue to travel while I'm inside the ship.
That I completely agree with and have posted in many threads about it. Even the Tribble feedback thread.

This seemed like the perfect opportunity to add Bridge travel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Unlike some, who've written that they don't like the new DOff system, I recognize that this is a big step forward, and there will certainly be improvements. Now, let's get to it...

1. When I bring up military assignments in my RR, the Tactical Officer isn't my T.O.? Pretty simple fix.

2. Personnel development assignments should be handled by the counselor, not the operations officer, because most of them deal with extra-curricular activities.

3. It's confusing dealing with the Envoy by computer, especially when I'm an Envoy. Have the terminal bring up Jiro to give you assignments instead.

4. Why not have the ability to just talk to your BOffs to get many of the departmental assignments?

5. Clarify the assignment cooldown system. Right now, you can choose between morning, afternoon, and evening counseling sessions and you cycle through repeated 'Failed to start' messages. Just 'inactivate' the buttons entirely. Same situation with the bartenders, personnel officers, etc... The switching around between the DOff dialog and DOff assignment screens is... cumbersome. If you know what I mean, then maybe you're already looking at alternatives.

6. Finally, add more rooms and fuctionality to the existing rooms in the ship layout. Currently, it's very stripped-down, and some of us would like to see ships that conform to the Star Trek we've become accustomed to. A few ideas:

* Armory: You should have an armorer who would function as an away team equipment vendor. The armory itself should be located adjecent to the transporter room and Hanger. This isn't always practical for a ship of 50, but if the player is flying a cruiser, for example, it makes great sense. Keep the vendors on the planets/starbases as well (for those who want to restock before a fleet action or STF, but are not on their ship at the time.) Also, the player could have them start weapons' modification assignments from here.

* Brig/Security Office: There should be a brig with individual cells. If the player have a prisoner on their ship, they should show up. If not, it'll be empty. Either way, we've seen brigs on most ships in Star Trek over the years, so why leave it out? You could also make this a central location where the player could find their Security Officer to begin shipboard 'military' assignments.

* Sickbay: The current layout is great, but if the player has a DOff listed as being in Sickbay, they should be shown laying in one of the biobeds. If not, they'll be empty. You should have the doctor stationed here act as a vendor for hypos, not make it an assignment to assemble a pack. We use a lot mor hypos that the player can reasonably assemble here.

* Hangar Deck: Big room. Stock with 2 standard shuttles and specialty shuttles/runabouts the player may have purchased. Long, long-term: mabye an accessway to the Aquarias (for Odyssey TAC), but that's a serious back-burner.

* Astrometrics Lab: Dark room, with lots of consoles and in the center, a big holo-display of the galaxy. Not necessarily a functional room, but it looks good and gives the player's crew the appearance of doing something besides wandering the halls. A much better place to find a scientist than the engineering lab.

* Shield/Deflector Control: Not showcased in most of the series, but the same argument as above. Having a crew just walk back and forth in the hallways is pretty uninspired.

* Engineering: It may be a little much, but I can't imagine that the Main Engineering space on a cruiser, would be the same size and configuration (especially size) as a Defiant sized escort. A different map would be a nice change for this room. Some Jeffries tube accesses and maybe an office for the Chief Engineer. Here's an idea the bean-counters at Cryptic would like... purchased customization, like the bridge layout?

* Holodeck: Not sure how it would be used at the moment, but most of the modern ships have them, so why not include it to add some flare? Wait!!! A target practice mini-game!?! The player could use it to polish their marksmanship skills for ground missions. How about a precision flight mini-game? Remember "Night of the Comet"? I wish I'd had some flight experience before the four times I went through that.

* Crew Lounge: Looks Great! Why is no one ever eating, socializing, or sitting for that matter. Maybe add a few more trophy and/or customization options. There's an option to invite people to see the player's ship... and they all look alike! How about this? The player walks into the crew lounge, and an Ensign asks them if they would let her participate in the Anbo-Jyuistu tournament? Interactive prompting for a 'Development' assignment? Okay... at least have an 'interact' icon over their head.

* Personal Quarters: Way too large! They seem larger than the conference room where the player meets dignitaries during first contact missions, and there 10 NPCs in there. Also, the player should have an option to change between purchased outfits in this location.

* Conference Room: This should be a room on the ship, since the player use it during missions.

* Cargo Bay: Big room. Stock with crates, skiffs, and loaders. You could station the quartermasters and traders here, and start trade missions from this location.

Just a few thought. Totally constructive critizism.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
03-25-2012, 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
Still missing the point.

Breaking up all of the missions is still a step backwards.

One list where we can compare everything available to make informed choices is the point several are trying to make.


Unless one of the specific goals with these changes was to obfuscate things and purposefully slow players down.


Ship interior is pointless, unless I can continue to travel while I'm inside the ship.

Otherwise it's stolen functionality from another system, to force/create the illusion of functionality in a place that has no other functionality.

By all means, add the new contacts - but why steal it completely from the previous method?


This is the same type of thought process that led to the jury rig "functionality" that was given to Sci Console Slots by stealing good consoles from Engineering. Instead of actually making useful Sci Consoles to begin with.
i have to agree.... wasting time to look a a LIST you could look at from anywhere adds nothing.

Without real FUNCTIONS all the shipboars fluff is just that. well annoying fluff really. With no mail, tailor, exchange, bank, healing, repair, travel, all the ship is is a playhouse for RPers who want to hang out in the cafeteria chit chatting with the counslor.

If you read the threads thru out the forum the people who do like the system never comment on the many ways the system isnt actually working - ie colonials in ops but not sector -- but rather they all want more fluff so they can make the ship into Barbies Dreamhouse.

I know one of Heretic's goals was to make doffing more social.... but to be honest its so agrevating and time consuming now the LAST THING i want to do is have people over on my ship slowing me down or having to go other peoples ships and wasting time there,

All the aggrevation aside, I also think a lot of the system has been dumbed down. Getting a Vulcan cultural exchange used to be exiting. Now its just a daily pick up. probably wont even bother with it in another week.

Lets be honest. If people where having issues getting missions and completing chains it was one of two reasons. The first is the person just didnt get it. The playet type who needs to be spoon fed. Same people who are shocked that a mission "ate" their refugee.

The most common reason though is that many of the missions/chains were simply BUGGED. If something wasnt bugged I have never spent more than a week on it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
03-26-2012, 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
5) Chefs and Bartenders do not add to the menus as we were told it would.
Please post issues like the Chef and Bartending as separate threads so I can look into what might be happening.

On the issue of not accessing materials, the replicator and inventory is as accessible on your ship interior as when you are flying around; what functionality specifically are you missing on the ship interior that you want that is available in sector space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utio
There were no diplo missions in sector space for 90% of sectors. I HAD to go to bridge each sector to find a diplo mission. The day before there were diplo missions everywhere.
Please post distribution issues as separate threads so I can look into what might be happening. As noted, every assignment in the game had some infrastructural redistribution applied to it, and I am quite certain there are still some things that need to be rebalanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
The old system, you can DOFF on the run and check all missions within 20 minutes and if you had other characters, you can send them there and be done within 1 hour. But with this new system you have to enter sector space, see what's there, go inside to see what special sector missions there are, zone out, rince and repeat for every zone in STO that offers DOFF missions. In short that 20 minute run now literally becomes 2 hrs!
These are purely bonus assignments. If people really overwhelmingly hate having bonus sector assignments, it is still an option to just take all the sector assignments out of the ship interiors. The intent was to make it easier to complete rare and hard to find chains, but if it really is that hated, removing them is still an option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolas76
Seems the DOFF System is Cryptics answer to Blizzards Paladin...

Hey if the mess people have to waste time with weren't enough they failed again with the rewards, from the patchnotes:No, it doesn't. Damn Hypos, Dosi Rotgut and **** like that...not a single contraband.
Please post bugs like this as separate threads on the forum to make sure I see it. If there's an issue - let me know, and I will look into it and fix it as necessary.

The intent of this was not to waste anyone's time, it was to offer bonus assignments above and beyond what was already available, to make some existing, hard-to-find chain links always available rather than waiting weeks between links, and to give a bonus chance to find the various links.

I am, honestly, sorry, to see the community as divided over this as they are. I did this on my own time as a means of attempting to fix the distribution issues and give people a way to finish rare chains so they wouldn't be waiting weeks in between chain links. The intent was not to add time, it was to make it easier for players. Obviously, it has not been seen that way by some people, and I will do what I can to accomplish the goals of making your use of the duty officer system faster and more rewarding while minimizing any frustrations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thanatos9t
I don't mind the new system but I have one complaint get those people wearing TOS gear when I am aboard my Constitution, Barman and Chef are fine as they are not wearing 23rd century uniforms but the 25th modern uniforms breaks the feel of the ship.
We are looking into ways of fixing this. There are a couple of complications we are examining the best way to resolve.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
03-26-2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Please post issues like the Chef and Bartending as separate threads so I can look into what might be happening.
We got one going here for your viewing pleasure.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
03-26-2012, 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
These are purely bonus assignments. If people really overwhelmingly hate having bonus sector assignments, it is still an option to just take all the sector assignments out of the ship interiors. The intent was to make it easier to complete rare and hard to find chains, but if it really is that hated, removing them is still an option.

...

The intent of this was not to waste anyone's time, it was to offer bonus assignments above and beyond what was already available, to make some existing, hard-to-find chain links always available rather than waiting weeks between links, and to give a bonus chance to find the various links.

I am, honestly, sorry, to see the community as divided over this as they are. I did this on my own time as a means of attempting to fix the distribution issues and give people a way to finish rare chains so they wouldn't be waiting weeks in between chain links. The intent was not to add time, it was to make it easier for players. Obviously, it has not been seen that way by some people, and I will do what I can to accomplish the goals of making your use of the duty officer system faster and more rewarding while minimizing any frustrations.
I think it raises the question of what a "bonus" assignment is. If an assignment can spawn in two places instead of one, is it reasonable for people to think of one of those as a bonus, or is it reasonable for people to adjust their expectations for how often they see an assignment to include both spawn points?

I think part of it is that some assignments are considered by players to be overwhelmingly more important than others - primarily, assignments that include gaining BOffs and DOffs and completing chains. It's not too unreasonable to consider a support mission, with 30+% of awarding a purple DOff, to be at *least* 10 times more important than a "receive random race dignitaries" that awards 70 or 80 diplomacy cxp. Because assignments like support/instigate/etc else are *so much better* than most other missions, it's hard, psychologically, to consider the chance for those to show up from shipboard npcs as a "bonus" instead of "required to be checked."

One suggestion would be to allow the assignments visible shipboard to be sector-independent. Part of what makes the shipboard assignments frustrating is how shipboard missions vary a noticeable amount between sectors, so to see what assignments are actually available you need to check your ship in each sector. The fact that viewing the full list of assignments for a sector involves 5 loading screens (entering sector, entering bridge, entering engineering, entering crew deck, back to sector) makes it very tedious.

I like the overall idea here, and think there's a lot of potential. Having some missions always available from certain npcs is fantastic, and I do like having a reason to venture into my ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
03-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Quick question, Heretic... what's the new cooldown on the Bajoran Exchange? I need a few more Resolve Doffs of decent quality for my console manufacturing...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
03-26-2012, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
The intent of this was not to waste anyone's time, it was to offer bonus assignments above and beyond what was already available, to make some existing, hard-to-find chain links always available rather than waiting weeks between links, and to give a bonus chance to find the various links.

I am, honestly, sorry, to see the community as divided over this as they are. I did this on my own time as a means of attempting to fix the distribution issues and give people a way to finish rare chains so they wouldn't be waiting weeks in between chain links. The intent was not to add time, it was to make it easier for players. Obviously, it has not been seen that way by some people, and I will do what I can to accomplish the goals of making your use of the duty officer system faster and more rewarding while minimizing any frustrations.
I truly do appreciate the new functionality. Bonus assignments - great! I think it does make perfect sense for those "always-available" assignments to be there, too.

Why the heck shouldn't I have to go down to the Engineering Lab to build a new console, or spend data samples on research assignments? Sure, it would be more convenient if I could access it all from one place, but I think I have an inkling of the reasons why that doesn't really work.

I also like the fact that if I am trying to zero in on a certain Commendation, say, Espionage, I can get a very targeted list of assignments. Going to my interior is a small price to pay for extra, high-value assignments that are not truly sector-specific.

Likewise, I think the recruitment assignment changes were good ones. Now we know where to find them (Personnel Officer), they're all basically in one place, and they're always available as long as they aren't on cooldown. (I like being able to "trade up" too, by the way!)

One issue for me is that I am trying to complete specific Colonial chains. That involves spending time in sector space moving from exploration cluster to exploration cluster. In that case, zoning to the interior to find Colonial chain assignments is not welcome.
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